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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - Beastmen

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
edited August 2021 in General Discussion
I have been wanting to make a Beastmen entry in this series since the beginning, and with the most recent update, I can finally do it justice. Skip to the lists if you're familiar with my posts, but for any newcomers: these builds are designed to be themed around the Legendary Lord's bonuses, gameplay, overall roster utilization (between all LL's in a faction), background lore, location, and starting units, in that order. The entire point of these builds is to force, by means of fun themes, myself and perhaps others to utilize units in their campaigns that they may otherwise not. For example, I am personally not a fan of chariot units, but if I'm playing Settra or Khazrak, you can bet that I'll use them. Obviously, this all means that the lists may not be the best choice for Legendary difficulty, or multiplayer, but those players are not my target audience.

1) Khazrak the One-Eye

Khazrak on Razorgor Chariot
Wargor on Razorgor Chariot*
Bray-Shaman (Shadows) on Razorgor Chariot
Khorrok's Manrippers
Bestigor Herd x5
Ungor Raiders x4
Chaos Warhounds (Poison) x2
Razorgor Herd x2
Razorgor Chariots x3

*Wargor added per @MiniaAr's suggestion

Khazrak grants vanguard deployment to Bestigors and Razorgor Chariots, stalk for Bestigors, Warhounds, and Razorgors Herds, extra charge bonus and bonus vs infantry for Warhounds and Razorgor Herds, increased melee attack and charge bonus for all melee infantry, and he increases the missile strength of Ungor Raiders while also granting them poison damage. Khazrak buffs every single thing in his army with the exception of the Bray-Shaman, and that's not even all of his buffs; I only included the relevant ones. The Bray-Shaman has the Lore of Shadows because Khazrak is the sneakiest Beastmen LL and has a lot of ambush success bonuses.

With Khazrak, I'd focus on attacking Men, mostly the Empire and Bretonnia, but starting with Tilea and Estalia, given the start position. I would take a route that would lead me to Middenheim close to last (regarding the realms of Man).

2) Malagor the Dark Omen

Malagor
Bray-Shaman (Beasts), either mount*
Wargor, either mount
Black-Horn's Ravagers
Gor Herd (Shields) x2
Gor Herd x3
Harpies x4
Feral Manticore x2
Giant (Beastmen) x2
The Eye of Morrslieb
Cygor x2

*Bray-Shaman added per @MiniaAr's suggestion

Malagor's Harpies cause fear, which I value more than Khazrak's bonus for harpies, which is a charge bonus and bonus vs infantry. Malagor also has increased unit capacity for Harpies, and is called the Crowfather. I gave him a Wargor on a Razorgor Chariot simply to support him if he lands or to otherwise disrupt infantry that may not be subject to a Flock of Doom at a given moment. I gave Malagor the mid-tier melee infantry because his expensive units aren't as threatening as Morghur's or Taurox's. Malagor starts with a Manticore but more than that, as the only flying Lord, it makes the most sense. He also starts with a Giant (the best-looking kind). Malagor buffs the weapon strength and armor for pretty much all of the Beastmen's monsters, but I believe that he gets the more utility out of the Harpies, Giants, Cygors, and Manticores than the other LL's. Taurox's buff to Cygors is only armor, but Malagor also increased their weapon strength, which I would consider their most important stat after range.

With Malagor, I'd travel south/southeast, taking on Dwarfs, Greenskins, Tomb Kings, and Lizardmen. Bring ruination to all. I'm saving Malagor for TWW3.

3) Morghur the Shadowgave

Morghur
Bray-Shaman (Death), either mount
Wargor unmounted
Ungor Herd x2
Destroyers of the Drakwald
Ungor Spearmen Herd
Sons of Ghorros
Centigors (Great Weapons) x2
Groghooves of Wolf's Run
Centigors (Throwing Axes) x2
Chaos Spawn x4
The Vorbergland Broodmother
Jabberslythe x2

Morghur grants unique battle effects to Chaos Spawn and Jabberslythes as well as boosting their melee defense and weapon strength, which he also gives to Centigors. He is also the only LL to buff Centigors at all. I gave him the low-tier infantry mostly for the name of the RoR, which is an uncharacteristic choice for me honestly. "Destroyers of the Drakwald" strikes a very anti-forest vibe, right? Even though Drakwald Forest was mostly inhabited by men of the Empire, the Wood Elves care for all forests and Morghur has an intense fixation on ruining all of the WE's fun. That, and Morghur's army can handle having worse infantry with their other units and bonuses, especially in campaign. The unmounted Wargor acts as a bodyguard for Morghur. The Bray-Shaman has the lore of Death simply because it seems like the least worst choice between the four options. I haven't given the lore of Beasts to any of the LLs's; I have an unsupported idea that Beast casters are generally not themselves bestial.

With Morghur, I would hunt down all of the Wood Elf factions across the world, hitting Athel Loren last. The idea is that Morghur is corrupting the magical forests and weakening the Oak of Ages/Ariel before going in for the kill. His immunity to magical forest biomes supports this kind of a campaign.

4) Taurox the Brass Bull

Taurox
Bray-Shaman (Wilds) on Tuskgor Chariot
Gorebull x2*
Tuskgor Chariots x4
Butchers of Kalkengard
Minotaurs (Shields) x4
Minotaurs (Great Weapons) x4
The Bloodbrute Behemoth
Ghorgon x2

*Wargor removed per @MiniaAr's suggestion

Taurox's army is OP and there's no getting around that, so let's just embrace it. He buffs Minotaurs like nobody else, so they're a given. He also gets the Ghorgons even though Malagor technically buffs them more than he does. I've chosen him to have Ghorgons over Malagor because Malagor also buffs a lot of other units, and the RoR Ghorgon is very much Khorne-associated, as is Taurox. Plus, Taurox alone gets a +1 unit capacity for Ghorgons. The characters in the army provide armor-piercing, spellcasting, anti-infantry, and anti-large, in that order. The Wargor can also support the Tuskgor Chariots, which I've given to Taurox to fill a gap in his build and because none of the LL's buff Tuskgors, so I had to pick somebody. Having the less beefy chariot and mount option helps offset his power creep somewhat.

With Taurox, kill everything and everyone. Starting so far away from the other Beastmen lords makes any campaign direction rather unique for the faction.

That's it for the beastie boys. Let me know what you all think, and as ever, I am willing to edit the lists if a change makes sense. Just provide a reason for why you'd change something, and I very well may do so. I have never professed to be an expert or even particularly knowledgeable about the TT lore.

As a side note, I have updated the Dwarf list to include Thorek, and I intend to do the Skaven next.

Previous Lists:

Dwarfs https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288070/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dwarfs-updated
Vampires https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288074/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-vampire-counts
Greenskins https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288285/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-greenskins
The Empire https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/289912/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-the-empire
Wood Elves https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288448/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-wood-elves
Norsca https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290569/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-norsca
WoC https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/292243/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-warriors-of-chaos-current
Dark Elves https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293037/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dark-elves
Bretonnia https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290009/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-bretonnia
High Elves https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293966/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-high-elves
Lizardmen https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/294733/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-lizardmen
Post edited by GoldfishLord on

Comments

  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,750
    edited October 2021
    Finally your post got resurrected.

    Interesting as always. Here are some of my personal takes:

    1) Khazrak:
    I did not use Razorgor Herds and Chaos Warhounds for him, I felt they fitted more the "All Chaos-No Gors" theme I wanted for Morghur (more on that below).
    Instead as the Chariot guys, I gave him both Razorgors and Tuskgors chariots (after all, they are buffed with the same red line skills). I would also use a Wargor on a Charriot as a second in command. I agree with the Lore of Shadows choice.

    2) Malagor: Agree with the theme of Regular Gors + Flying units and Cygors (fit the magic theme). I would add here the Bray-Shaman (Beasts) so that you get the manticore summon and can benefits from the red line skills you're going to take for Manticores.

    3) Morghur:
    I went with a full "Only Chaos + Centigors" theme for him, and didn't take any Gors/Ungors/Bestigors. Morghur has a new ancillary that gives speed in exchange of rampage, but this is great to give to Razorgor Herds who already rampage and can benefit a lot from the additional speed.

    4) Taurox:
    Not a lot more to say. I would use Centigors (Great Weapons) instead of Chariots for the fast part of the army (as I gave the Tuskgor charriots to Khazrak). I wouldn't take a wargor with him, Slaughterhorn tribe/Taurox should be all about the Minotaurs and Ghorgons (and maybe a Cygor or two). I'm considering taking a second Gorebull because they feel great in his army but I'm trying to use less heroes nowadays.

    Post edited by MiniaAr on
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 1,564
    Aww yissssssss! Nice one.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,666
    Sadly I've never got around to reading the BM armybook so my knowledge is rather limited, only stuff I picked up here and there.

    One thing I "know" (gosh I hope it's actually right!) is that apparently Bray Shamans (and great ones) are the ones binding the monsters for the Warherds. With Malagor being one (kind of) that makes a monster heavy build seem about right. Still your sectioning off of monsters appears to still be appropriate, given the different origins and nature of some of those SEM's.
    Ghorgons for example actually are Minotaurs that got a bit carried away and mutated into what they are now. So they really are Taurox material.
    I'm not sure were Cygors actually come from, but they can only see magic, not light. Thus they operate based on detecting peoples magic aura and with wizards basically being beacons to them they really are after magic users, starting lobbing magical rocks at them on "sight". This magical theme hints at Malagor for me, but they still look like cyclopean Minotaurs. (BTW I really want to see a more avian Tzygor as artillery for Tzeentch)
    Morghur actually isn't a "proper" beastman but chaos corruption incarnate, explaining why he always gets reborn. Obviously the heavily mutated and utterly chaotic Jabberslythe gets right along with that, together with other chaos mutated beasts such as Razorgors, Warhounds and Spawn. Centigors too are aren't really beastmen but tag-alongs, so overall I pretty much agree with @MiniaAr in that regard. Lorewise they don't really have a special affinity for any particular lord, as Ghorros isn't in yet. Still Morghur does have a warherd, as the BM instinctively flock to him. A few Gors and Ungors are never a mistake.
    This leaves us with Khazrak the proper Gor lord, and a rather cunning and picky (his buffs also mean that he really has no use for Ungors, outside missiles) one at that, iirc. I pretty much see him as the chariot (all) and Bestigor guy. Everything monstrous is kind of to uncontrolable for his plans imho, so I'd stick with low profile (aka not huge) and intelligent stuff.
    As the (former, he slaughtered them all) leader of a Minotaur tribe, Taurox is a no brainer.

    So yeah, in broad terms my limited knowledge seems to confirm your approach.
  • drclaw_twdrclaw_tw Registered Users Posts: 289
    With Beastmen I usually just get whatever happens to be available with infantry, chariots, ungor raiders and centigors. I'm playing as Malagor but going light on the flying units since I never liked harpies or manticores that much excelt for siege battles.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
    MiniaAr said:

    Finally your post got resurrected.

    Interesting as always. Here are some of my personal takes:

    1) Khazrak:
    I did not use Razorgor Herds and Chaos Warhounds for him, I felt they fitted more the "All Chaos-No Gors" theme I wanted for Morghur (more on that below).
    Instead as the Chariot guys, I gave him both Razorgors and Tuskgors chariots (after all, they are buffed with the same red line skills). I would also use a Wargor on a Charriot as a second in command. I agree with the Lore of Shadows choice.

    2) Malagor: Agree with the theme of Regular Gors + Flying units and Cygors (fit the magic theme). I would add here the Bray-Shaman (Beasts) so that you get the unicorn summon and can benefits from the red line skills you're going to take for Manticores.

    3) Morghur:
    I went with a full "Only Chaos + Centigors" theme for him, and didn't take any Gors/Ungors/Bestigors. Morghur has a new ancillary that gives speed in exchange of rampage, but this is great to give to Razorgor Herds who already rampage and can benefit a lot from the additional speed.

    4) Taurox:
    Not a lot more to say. I would use Centigors (Great Weapons) instead of Chariots for the fast part of the army (as I gave the Tuskgor charriots to Khazrak). I wouldn't take a wargor with him, Slaughterhorn tribe/Taurox should be all about the Minotaurs and Ghorgons (and maybe a Cygor or two). I'm considering taking a second Gorebull because they feel great in his army but I'm trying to use less heroes nowadays.

    Khazrak just buffs Chaos Warhounds with a charge bonus, a bonus vs infantry, and stalk. It's hard to overlook that. Morghur doesn't buff war hounds at all outside of generic red line skills available to every lord. I prioritize in-game bonuses over the background lore unless it is overwhelmingly innate to a character to have a specific unit, but I'm not sure that Morghur has an aversion to traditional Beastmen units. I'll take the Wargor suggestion, though.

    For Malagor, sure, I can add the Beasts caster. He has enough WoM to spare.

    You can get away with using no infantry with Taurox's Minotaurs, but you can't effectively do that with Morghur's Chaos Spawn. I think; I haven't played Beastmen since TWWI. Morghur's buffs basically demand Centigors, Jabberlythes, and Chaos Spawn. I would actually give him Razorgors if there were room in his build, but especially going up against Wood Elves, you'd want shielded infantry, even if the shields are bronze.

    The Wargor does actually look hilariously small next to Taurox. I'm replacing him with another Doombull; the two can use differing equipment.

  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444

    Aww yissssssss! Nice one.

    Thank'ee
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444

    Sadly I've never got around to reading the BM armybook so my knowledge is rather limited, only stuff I picked up here and there.

    One thing I "know" (gosh I hope it's actually right!) is that apparently Bray Shamans (and great ones) are the ones binding the monsters for the Warherds. With Malagor being one (kind of) that makes a monster heavy build seem about right. Still your sectioning off of monsters appears to still be appropriate, given the different origins and nature of some of those SEM's.
    Ghorgons for example actually are Minotaurs that got a bit carried away and mutated into what they are now. So they really are Taurox material.
    I'm not sure were Cygors actually come from, but they can only see magic, not light. Thus they operate based on detecting peoples magic aura and with wizards basically being beacons to them they really are after magic users, starting lobbing magical rocks at them on "sight". This magical theme hints at Malagor for me, but they still look like cyclopean Minotaurs. (BTW I really want to see a more avian Tzygor as artillery for Tzeentch)
    Morghur actually isn't a "proper" beastman but chaos corruption incarnate, explaining why he always gets reborn. Obviously the heavily mutated and utterly chaotic Jabberslythe gets right along with that, together with other chaos mutated beasts such as Razorgors, Warhounds and Spawn. Centigors too are aren't really beastmen but tag-alongs, so overall I pretty much agree with @MiniaAr in that regard. Lorewise they don't really have a special affinity for any particular lord, as Ghorros isn't in yet. Still Morghur does have a warherd, as the BM instinctively flock to him. A few Gors and Ungors are never a mistake.
    This leaves us with Khazrak the proper Gor lord, and a rather cunning and picky (his buffs also mean that he really has no use for Ungors, outside missiles) one at that, iirc. I pretty much see him as the chariot (all) and Bestigor guy. Everything monstrous is kind of to uncontrolable for his plans imho, so I'd stick with low profile (aka not huge) and intelligent stuff.
    As the (former, he slaughtered them all) leader of a Minotaur tribe, Taurox is a no brainer.

    So yeah, in broad terms my limited knowledge seems to confirm your approach.

    I was actually going to remove the Bray-Shaman from Taurox's list until you said this in the vein of a Khorne theme, but now I'll keep him in there to justify the Ghorgons. Thanks!

    You and @MiniaAr both made indications that Khazrak could use Tuskgor Chariots, and yeah, he could. I've decided not to because breaking up the chariot options into two different lists allows me to fill out Taurox's army a bit so that it's not too Minotaur-heavy. Also, if a unit is a direct upgrade to another, there's not much point in using them in the same army. Tuskgor Chariots and Razorgor Chariots both have the exact same speed; maybe if the Tuskgors were faster, they'd have a different utility, but they have no benefit over the Razorgors apart from being a smaller target. Taurox gets the worse chariots because he has no chariot buffs, but the rest of his army is ridiculous, so he can afford it.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
    drclaw_tw said:

    With Beastmen I usually just get whatever happens to be available with infantry, chariots, ungor raiders and centigors. I'm playing as Malagor but going light on the flying units since I never liked harpies or manticores that much excelt for siege battles.

    I thought this way too once, especially in TWW1. I would shy away from certain types of units. Adapting into the thematic playstyle, however, has really improved the replayability of the game and it's also made me a more versatile player. I'm better at micro now, too.

    The best example is this: You probably didn't master the use of cavalry until you played Bretonnia, right? And afterwards, you're more willing to use cavalry for other races? That's how it went for me, and it's pretty much the same for the other unit types that are thematic for particular lords. My aversion to chariots is fading, and I like that. So give it a shot!
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
    Does anyone else share my disappointment in the mount variety for the Beastmen? They only have chariots, and one is objectively superior to the other. Every other race has some pros and cons for their various mounts, but for the Beastmen, that only exists in terms of "mounted" or "unmounted". There's no gameplay reason beyond upkeep to take the Tuskgor Chariot as a mount.
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