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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - Skaven

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
edited August 10 in General Discussion
Hello once more, everyone. Today's entry in the series covers the lovely verminous filth. Hopefully you are familiar with the format by now, but to those of you who are new: these builds are designed to be themed around the Legendary Lord's bonuses, gameplay, overall roster utilization (between all LL's in a faction), background lore, location, and starting units, in that order. The entire point of these builds is to force, by means of fun themes, myself and perhaps others to utilize units in their campaigns that they may otherwise not use.

What I found surprising while making these lists is that the Skaven LL's don't provide much in the way of buffs, and most of the hero options seem designed for a particular LL and aren't particularly "generic" in that sense. What this means is that the in-game buffs aren't that helpful for designing thematic builds, so I anticipate a decent amount of correction by all of you this time lol. Anyway, enough preamble, 'ere we go!

1) Queek Headtaker

Queek
Warlock Engineer*
Clan Vulkn Tailslashers
Clanrats (Shields) x2
Clanrat Spears (Shields) x3
Stormvermin (Sword and Shield) x2
Poisoned Wind Globadiers x3*
Warpfire Throwers x3*
Poisoned Wind Mortars x2*
Warp Lightning Cannons x2

*Heavy edits made with the help of @445Aas and @MiniaAr. Muchas gracias!

Queek receives reduced upkeep for Clanrats and Stormvermin, and provides extra armor for Clanrats, which is actually the most substantial unique buff that Clanrats receive from any LL. Thus, Queek gets the Clanrats and their RoR. Unfortunately, those are really the only special buffs that Queek has, so the rest of his build is built around the tenuous thread that links Clan Mors and Clan Vulkn, which is discussed at length in the comments. Suffice to say, Clan Vulkn is geographically placed where it could easily be absorbed by an expanding Clan Mors, and Vulkn makes use of several Skryre units. Previously I had Rat Ogres and Gutter Runners with Queek but I am much happier with the new build.

2) Lord Skrolk

Skrolk
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace x2*
Plague Monks x4
Blightscab's Plaguepack
Plague Monk Censer Bearers x3
Wolf Rats x2*
Rat Ogres x3*
Plagueclaw Catapult x4

*Replaced Poisoned Wind units for more lore-appropriate allocations thanks to @MiniaAr and @445Aas

Skrolk reduces the upkeep for all Plague units. Having multiple spellcasters of the same lorebook in the army may seem odd but I don't know where else I'd use the Plague Priest in this post and like many caster LL's, Skrolk has the WoM to spare. On the Plague Furnaces, the Plague Priests are anti-infantry and have an armor-piercing bonus. Skrolk himself is decent in melee as well. The Wolf Rats and Rat Ogres were added due to Skrolk using them in the lore, per @MiniaAr.

3) Tretch Craventail

Tretch
Assassin
Eshin Sorcerer*
Chieftan on foot
Council Guard
Stormvermin (Halberds) x3
Stormvermin (Sword and Shield) x4
Gutter Runner Slingers (Poison) x4
Night Runner Slingers x3*
Doomwheel x2

*Tweaks made with credit to @445Aas and @MiniaAr

The least-loved of the Skaven LL's actually has the best buffs for Stormvermin: the Encourage effect, missile resistance, and a charge bonus. In the lore, Clan Rictus is the richest of the clans and is known for their Stormvermin, so Tretch's infantry is appropriate. He starts with a Doomwheel for some reason, so I gave him two of those. Perhaps with his wealth, it's trivial to purchase these from Clan Skyre. The Assassin is there because Tretch is a conniving, sneaky rat, and the Chieftan is in to act as a sort of lieutenant for the Stormvermin. The Gutter Runner units' very name sounds in line with Tretch Craventail - a treacherous, slippery creature of lowly origins. @MiniaAr had the great idea to put the slinger units in with Tretch over the shuriken units, which should go to Snikch.

4) Ikit Claw

Ikit on foot
Warlock Engineer
Warp-Grinders x3
The Doombringers
Warpfire Throwers
Teeth-Breakers
Death Dealers
Ratling Guns x2
Eye-Takers
Natty Buboe's Sharpshooters
Warplock Jezzails
Ikit's Zzzzap-Zzzzap!
Warp Lightning Cannons
Dwarf-Thing Menace
Blackhole Flayers
Wheelz of Doom
Warpfire's Wheel

If this build is difficult to envision, it's because it is almost entirely RoRs and unique units only available to Ikit. Ikit's buffs are absolutely ridiculous; it seems like he uniquely improves about half of the Skaven roster. There's a good amount of units that he buffs that aren't included in his list at all because there are simply too many to choose from. He gets Warpfire Throwers, Ratling Guns, Warplock Jezzails, Doom-Flayers, and Doomwheels. Those units are everything below "Warp-Grinders x3", just to make it easy for you all to read through. His most substanial buffs apply to those units, but I want to talk about the Warp-Grinders. He makes them viable infantry. His very first buff for them grants a whopping +30 melee attack. That's insane. The last point is him being on foot. His jetpack animation is way too sweet to miss out on, and you can put your generic lords on Doomwheels, too. Let Ikit fly.

For this one, I want to showcase the build with only the base units represented to clarify the army composition:

Ikit
Warlock Engineer
War-Grinders x3
Warpfire Throwers x2
Ratling Guns x4
Warplock Jezzails x3
Warp Lightning Cannons x2
Doom-Flayers x2
Doomwheel x2

It's really not that crazy of a list, it's just mostly made up of special units and RoRs because they all fit so well with Ikit. @MiniaAr made a point of saying that the Jezzail RoR belongs with Clan Mors, but I frown at including a single unit when their base unit isn't also incorporated (though I do continue to thank you for any lore that you can scrounge up).

5) Deathmaster Snikch

Snikch
Eshin Sorcerer
Assassin x2*
Iksha's Triads
Eshin Triads x3*
Visktrin's Death Squad
Death Runners x3
Night Runners x2*
Gutter Runners (Poison) x4*
The Avalanche Mortars
Death Globe Bombardiers x2*

*Removed some Bombardiers and Night Runners, increased the number of Death Runners and Gutter Runners, and switched the Gutter Runners to the shuriken variant per @MiniaAr

Snikch doesn't even buff Eshin Triads (unbelievable); his only buff is to upgrade Night Runners and Gutter Runners to have armor-piercing warp projectiles. Snikch's gets the shuriken variants of these because @MiniaAr pointed out that he should and I felt dumb afterwards.The Eshin Sorcerer and Assassins are obvious choices, as are the Eshin Triads. The Death Runners may be questioned, but the background lore for their RoR supports an Eshin allocation. Anything associated with generic "Death" fits Snikch in my opinion. He's not trying to infect you, or corrupt you with warpstone, or swallow you with monsters. He's just trying to kill you. So, I also gave him the Death Globe Bombardiers, for that reason and because Ikit just didn't have room in his army for them. I like that Snikch's army is 100% infantry so that it can be as sneaky as possible, minus the Bombardiers.

6) Throt the Unclean

Throt on Brood Horror
Ghoritch
Packmaster on Brood Horror
Chieftan on Bonebreaker*
Skavenslave Spears x3
Wolf Rats (Poison) x2
Rat Ogres x2*
Pit Fighters of Hell's Deep
Brood Horrors x2
Morskittar's Hellion
Mutant Rat Ogre x2
The Thing-Thing
Hell Pit Abomination x2

*Removed one unit of Rat Ogres and replaced it with the Chieftan

Throt's army is nasty. I really don't anticipate much heckling on this one since all of these units are solidly in Throt's domain, but I'll address the Skavenslaves. They're used by Throt in the exact way that they are intended to be used; expendable units that tie up the enemy in melee and allow the killing power to do their job. Throt can imbue them with rather useful attributes, as well, which no other lord can do, thus Throt achieves the best utility out of Skavenslaves. I would have included more of them if I had room.

There you go, the Skaven all apportioned according to my whim. Haha no, in all seriousness, please let me know what you think and tell me if you believe that changes are in order. This marks the last core roster to cover until TWW3, so I will either do the Vampire Coast or the Tomb Kings next. Feel free to throw out an opinion on that if you have a preference, but I'll do both. As always, thank you for reading.

Previous Lists:

Dwarfs: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288070/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dwarfs-updated
Vampires: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288074/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-vampire-counts
Empire: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/289912/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-the-empire
Greenskins: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288285/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-greenskins
Wood Elves: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288448/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-wood-elves
Norsca: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290569/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-norsca
Bretonnia: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290009/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-bretonnia
WoC: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/292243/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-warriors-of-chaos-current
Beastmen: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/295338/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-beastmen
Dark Elves: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293037/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dark-elves
High Elves: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293966/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-high-elves
Lizardmen: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/294733/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-lizardmen
Post edited by GoldfishLord on

Comments

  • 445Aas445Aas Registered Users Posts: 237
    I am no expert on skaven lore and i don't have the ingame buffs at hand but here are my thoughts:

    Skaven trade weapon technology between clans, so there can be some crossover.

    If i read about Clan Mors quick, it says they use a lot of clanrats, take pride in their stormvermin, use assassins, poision, are unusually loyal and do use a lot of different weapons, which makes them versitile.

    Therefore i would give qeek poision gutter runners, maybe a warlock engineer to give him access to magic. I would cut the Clan Vulkn ror, they are clanrats but not mors clanrats. I would give qeek a few ratling guns and warpfire throwers to make his army stronger. These could be the weapons he traded and ratling guns and warpfire throwers are the most Basic skryre units in my mind. Doesn't He start with a warpfire Team?

    For skrolk i would cut the poision wind globadiers and mortars. It's a missconception that poision wind is a plague unit, these are pure skryre technology. The plagueclaws will so the Job of the mortars anyway. Maybe beef him Up with additional plague priests and Grey Seer(plague) on their mounts. Together all These Heroes can summon a lot of additional rats and debuff the enemy which could give you the opportunity to Play a melee Rush build for skaven. Rat ogres are a Basic skaven unit and could beef up the melee too, also wolfrats, maybe a hero with a broodhorror mount or SEM broodhorror to simulate poxrats. Skrolk also has buffs for eshin sorcerer, which would help a melee build and can hide strong Monsters.

    Tretch feels naked without magic. Maybe some monsters and weapon Teams again? Maybe warpgrinders because he is the most treacherous, fearfull skaven and warpgrinders could open him other hidden pathways. Maybe cut the poision because mors has it? Maybe put in the poision wind that clan pestilence lost.

    Ikitt claw feels overloaded on different and Special units. Maybe cut some stuff. He should definetly have ikkits zap zap, a lot of ratling guns, jezzails, doomflayers, doomwheels, some poision wind stuff but also skavenslaves or clanrats.

    Don't know about the deathwind mortar ror for Snikch, but together with the normal deathwind globadiers it could fit visually because of the nice purple. I would like a monster for snickh, most likely a SEM just because the eshin sorcerer can hide it and give it missile resistance and to give the army something impressive. It could be a traded, stolen or blackmailed unit from Clan Moulder. Would some jezzails fit because they are the most sneaky of the weapon Teams? Maybe the ror that has Snipe.

    Thrott is fine.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
    I am away from home for a few days but I will get back to this and respond when I am home!
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,287
    Some quick comments

    1) Queek:
    I built his army with the assumption that he's going to fight a lot underground. Basically using units with similar roles to Belegar. So I would replace the Gutter runners with warpfire throwers, and poisoned wind globadiers. The cannons are good for this theme.
    Also the Jezzails RoR is a Mors unit in the lore and should go to Queek.

    2) Skrolk:
    I would use a second Plague Priest really.
    I agree that poisoned wind units are not plague units.
    Instead, I would recommend Rat Ogres, Wolf rats and even Mutant Rat Ogre. Look at the list "Bubonic Court of Nurglich" from the Lustria expansion. Pestilens had those units on top of the regular Pestilens ones.
    For example "Frothing giant rats" or "Mad rat ogres". But when you look at the stats, they're basically rat ogres with Frenzy. Which you can simulate in the game by giving your army Plague.

    3) Tretch:
    The list is ok. Basically Stormvermins + sneaky units. The Doomwheel represent the fact that Rictus is very rich and can buy the most expensive toys of the other clans. Meaning you could also get a couple of Tier 5 units like an Hellpit Abo for example. For magic, the eshin sorcerer should be ok. The spells favour tactical sneakyness on the battlefield.

    4) Ikkit:
    Your list is a bit too much over the place.
    I recommend the generic skyre doomstack here.
    4 Jezzails
    4 Rattling guns
    2 Cannons
    2 catapults
    2 Doomflayers
    2 Doomwheels
    Ikkit
    1 or 2 warplock engineer
    1 chieftain on Bonebreaker.

    Basically almost all range with your characters and doomwheel-flayers in charge of stopping incoming units before they reach your gunline.

    5) Snikth:
    I understand the Death Globe Bombardier's and don't mind. Also Avalanche mortars are excellent for him and fit the guerilla playstyle.

    I would use Gutter runners and night runners with poison. To differentiate with Tretch, I would give Sniktch the Shuriken ones, and Tretch the Slingers one. Slingers are more indicated behind a line of Stormvermins whereas shuriken are all about the skirmishing.
    My personal stack would be:
    Sniktch
    Assassin (one or two)
    Eshin sorcerer

    3 Triads (Inc RoR)
    5 Death runners (Inc RoR)
    4 Night Runners (poison)
    4 Gutter runners (poison)
    Avalanche Mortars

    Replace some death runners or triads with death globes if you want. But the army I proposed is almost full stalk which is very powerful during sieges when you invest your whole army on one side and the ennemy is bombarded by the mortars on the other side.

    6) Theot:
    No suggestions there, I use something very similar.

    Thanks again for the thematic topics
    .
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
    Alrighty. I'm not responding directly to the comments made because there are only two of you and there's a lot of overlap. So:

    1) Queek

    @445Aas, I looked up Clan Vulkn after I read your comments, and I have decided to keep the Clanrats RoR with Queek. Their background lore is very minimal: they're a thrall clan that sells their services to the other clans, most frequently working with Skryre. However, as I have said in a few threads now, I don't particularly care about the background lore of a RoR unless it has exceptionally strong ties to a particular LL, and Ikit has too much already. That said, there are some loose ties to Clan Mors outside of the fact that Queek simply buffs Clanrats the most (which is enough for me). Clan Vulkn is based out of Fire Mountain, which is within the domain of Karak Azul. Queek's main objective in ME is Karak Eight Peaks, which is in an adjacent province, so him having a unit that is from that area fits quite well. If you wanted to roleplay with it, you could wait to recruit the unit until you've conquered Karak Azul.

    @MiniaAr, your input for Queek seems to mostly be about gameplay rather than lore. Perhaps Queek is just more of a generic leader when it comes to army themes. Regardless, your suggestions actually tie in rather well with the above bit about Clan Vulkn. They associate most closely with Skryre and have a fascination with fire, meaning that they field a lot of Warpfire Throwers and favor Warlock Engineers. Their association with Skryre also justifies Warp Lightning Cannons if Mors was to incorporate Vulkn. Also, I don't mind swapping the ranged troops for Poison Wind units so I will. I couldn't find anything on the wiki about the Jezzail RoR; I may consider changing their placement but like I said, without a very unquestionable lore reason, I find in-game buffs to be the stronger argument.

    A cooperation between Mors and Vulkn would see Warpfire Throwers, Warlock Engineers, and Warp Lightning Cannons in a Mors army. Thank you both for your Queek comments; I feel very good about his updated army composition now. I'd even attach the banner that gives flaming attacks to the Chieftain to show that he's brought in from Clan Vulkn.

    2) Skrolk

    I felt that I clearly indicated that I knew that the Poison Wind units are not technically plague units, but since both of you agreed that they don't fit, I will remove them from Skrolk's list. His only ranged units will be spellcasters and artillery. I somehow missed the Plague Furnace mount option for the Plague Priest, so I will do as you both suggest and give Skrolk two of them, though @445Aas, the Grey Seer is only a lord option, not a hero. I also just would not put an Eshin Sorcerer in his army when he has his own theme going with the Plague Priest. There's no need to mix lores here and I only have two Plague Priests because their mount gives them anti-infantry and armor-piercing bonuses, meaning that I can use them in melee. The Eshin Sorcerer is unmounted and would take away from the WoM for the other casters.

    Wolf Rats and Rat Ogres have made it in, thanks to @MiniaAr's lore insights, though I must acknowledge that @445Aas also suggested Wolf Rats. The color scheme even looks good on the unit cards now. Again, thank you guys for helping me fine-tune this.

    3) Tretch

    As @445Aas and @MiniaAr said, Tretch did need magic. The Eshin Sorcerer fits well with his theme. I'm more comfortable now with having greater crossover between the Skaven LL's; it's in their nature. @MiniaAr, I loved your idea about the slingers vs shuriken units and it seems obvious now that you've said it. I'm going to incorporate that for both Tretch and Snikch.

    4) Ikit

    I think that the high number of special units made reading the list arduous. My unedited list without naming special units was this:

    Ikit
    Warlock Engineer
    Warp Grinders x4
    Warpfire Throwers x2
    Ratling Guns x3
    Warplock Jezzails x2
    Warp Lightning Cannons x2
    Doom-Flayers x3
    Doomwheel x2

    That looks a lot better, doesn't it? It's not that different from @MiniaAr's build when you look at it this way. The main difference is the Warp-Grinders, and I have to put my foot down here. Ikit is the only LL who does anything special for Warp-Grinders, and he buffs them quite substantially. Not using them would be a waste, but I know that Ikit's build should have a heavy ranged focus, so I've taken out one unit each of Warp-Grinders and Doom-Flayers and replaced them with one unit each of Ratling Guns and Warplock Jezzails. I don't need the Chieftain because I have infantry.

    I don't expect people to look up, verify, or even necessarily remember what named RoRs and unique regiments' core units are, but have faith that I wouldn't just barf units into a list willy-nilly. Ikit and Eltharion just have so many special units that their builds look unwieldy unless they're broken down like above.

    5) Snikch

    @MiniaAr, like I said above, I really like the thought about breaking up the shurikens and slingers between Snikch and Tretch, so I have done so. I have played a Snikch campaign and I found that the Death Runners didn't perform as well as the Eshin Triads, so I'm not sure about your build having more Death Runners than Triads. I have at least equalized them, as I toned down the Globadiers mildly. I did add another Assassin, however.

    @445Aas, I politely disagree about the single entity in Snikch's army. I think that he should have the sneakiest army possible, and I wish that I had 100% of the units with concealment bombs, but I just don't have another place to put the Death Globe Bombardiers and Avalanche Mortars, plus as you've said, the purple fits so well.

    6) Throt

    Neither of you had any edits to suggest for Throt, but since I have removed the Chieftain on the Bonebreaker from Queek's army, I have given it to Throt and removed one unit of Rat Ogres. That still leaves him with three units of Rat Ogres including their RoR. Ghoritch is anti-infantry, but the Chieftain on the Bonebreaker is anti-large, so they both have good utility in the army.

    Thank you both so very much for your comments and input. I really, really appreciate it. I'm so much more excited for a Queek campaign now, and I am surprisingly more satisfied with Skrolk, Tretch, and Snikch as well.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 1,638
    @GoldfishLord https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Natty_Buboe
    So yeah, Clan Mors. I think the info is from the novel Headtaker but can't 100% say that since not all the info from the novels can be found by Googling.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • SnakeMajinSnakeMajin Registered Users Posts: 125
    Hello there. I love these threads, as I also seek to get some loreful, or at least thematic, army compositions.

    Here is how I work :
    - I mostly focus on late game armies, I mean I look for something that's both thematic and viable in the endgame. For the early-mid game, I use the lower tier equivalents or alternatives that fill a similar niche, until I can lend them to sub-Lords so I can recruit the End Game variants.
    - It's okay to me to have units appear in several Lords' armies, should they fit a specific role. It's also okay to me not to have some lower tier units that have some kind of direct upgrades, should they share the same perks in the Lord's unique skills : for example Night Runners get replaced by Gutter Runners, while Empire's Knights remain until the end in Volkmar' army despite them having clear upgrades in the roster.
    - I also try to keep the high tier units the Lord starts with, even if they are not obviously tied, and to bring units from the same DLC as the Lord should they fill a niche and not have direct upgrades.

    Here is the Snikch army I played with, it's similar but I'll explain the differences :
    - Snikch
    - Assassin
    - Eshin Sorcerer
    - 3 Death Runners (incl. RoR)
    - 3 Eshin Triads (incl. RoR)
    - 6 Gutter Runners (poison and shurikens)
    - 2 Mortars (incl. RoR)
    - 1 Warp-Grinder
    - RoR Jezzails and RoR Ratling Guns for Eshin campaign or 2 Gutter Runners (poison and slingers) for a confederated Snikch.

    The RoR Jezzails and Ratling Guns have some sneaking attributes that I feel fit Eshin well. They bring a bit more of fire-power to tackle Monsters trapped by the Warp-Grinder. The Warp-Grinder and Mortars are my siege units, they are mobile like Eshin would require and come from the same DLC as Snikch. I like using the Grinder to destroy doors while the Mortars clean up the walls until the Eshin units get up or in.

    Gutter Runners in skirmish mode are my frontline. Death Runners and Triads have a "surprise" support and strike team role, protecting Mortars and Long-Distance units.
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 882
    Sorry if someone else mentioned it but Morskittar's Hellion should be in Ikit army. Morskittar is lord od Skavenblight and superior of Ikit.

    Clan Moulder create this mutant rat ogre. But they create him for clan Skryre.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
    Yannir said:

    @GoldfishLord https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Natty_Buboe
    So yeah, Clan Mors. I think the info is from the novel Headtaker but can't 100% say that since not all the info from the novels can be found by Googling.

    Good find, but wow that is a tiny entry in the lore. This is definitely one of those instances in which the lore association just isn't strong enough to override the merit of the in-game bonuses. Plus, from that link you provided, I'm gathering that Natty Buboe was an individual rat and the RoR was just named after him.

    The lore justification that was discussed regarding the cooperation between Clan Mors and Clan Vulkn had more depth than the tidbit behind Natty Buboe's RoR, and that was something that we just came up with ourselves pretty much.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359

    Hello there. I love these threads, as I also seek to get some loreful, or at least thematic, army compositions.

    Here is how I work :
    - I mostly focus on late game armies, I mean I look for something that's both thematic and viable in the endgame. For the early-mid game, I use the lower tier equivalents or alternatives that fill a similar niche, until I can lend them to sub-Lords so I can recruit the End Game variants.
    - It's okay to me to have units appear in several Lords' armies, should they fit a specific role. It's also okay to me not to have some lower tier units that have some kind of direct upgrades, should they share the same perks in the Lord's unique skills : for example Night Runners get replaced by Gutter Runners, while Empire's Knights remain until the end in Volkmar' army despite them having clear upgrades in the roster.
    - I also try to keep the high tier units the Lord starts with, even if they are not obviously tied, and to bring units from the same DLC as the Lord should they fill a niche and not have direct upgrades.

    Here is the Snikch army I played with, it's similar but I'll explain the differences :
    - Snikch
    - Assassin
    - Eshin Sorcerer
    - 3 Death Runners (incl. RoR)
    - 3 Eshin Triads (incl. RoR)
    - 6 Gutter Runners (poison and shurikens)
    - 2 Mortars (incl. RoR)
    - 1 Warp-Grinder
    - RoR Jezzails and RoR Ratling Guns for Eshin campaign or 2 Gutter Runners (poison and slingers) for a confederated Snikch.

    The RoR Jezzails and Ratling Guns have some sneaking attributes that I feel fit Eshin well. They bring a bit more of fire-power to tackle Monsters trapped by the Warp-Grinder. The Warp-Grinder and Mortars are my siege units, they are mobile like Eshin would require and come from the same DLC as Snikch. I like using the Grinder to destroy doors while the Mortars clean up the walls until the Eshin units get up or in.

    Gutter Runners in skirmish mode are my frontline. Death Runners and Triads have a "surprise" support and strike team role, protecting Mortars and Long-Distance units.

    I agree heartily with the first two points that you made and while I see the value of the third, it's not quite as important to me on its own merit.

    The Skaven are very interchangeable with their units, so a lot of builds are viable from a lore perspective. I like to see others' lists and hear how they utilize them, so thank you for contributing to this post! My siege strategy with Snikch is to not give the towers anything to shoot at because like 95% of my army has concealment bombs, and then I sneak onto the walls where there aren't enemies so that my infantry doesn't have to start fighting with only a fraction of their models like they usually do.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
    Loreguy said:

    Sorry if someone else mentioned it but Morskittar's Hellion should be in Ikit army. Morskittar is lord od Skavenblight and superior of Ikit.

    Clan Moulder create this mutant rat ogre. But they create him for clan Skryre.

    Ikit has buffs or lore ties to half (or more) of the Skaven roster, but can still only field a 20-stack. There isn't room for everything he's associated with in his army, and he doesn't do anything at all for Mutant Rat Ogres. No buffs, no upkeep reduction, nothing.

    If anything, the Hellion should be part of the Skavenblight garrison so that it can actually be near Lord Morskittar. The Skaven aren't big on sharing their toys. If you want to justify it, then you could say that Throt is testing out the unit for Morskittar, or that Clan Moulder decided to keep it given that they're more powerful than Skryre. In a ME Moulder campaign, you'll almost certainly confederate Ikit as you expand.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,287
    edited August 10
    It's been a long time since I last played Ikkit, I'm curious now, what buffs does he give to warp grinders?

    I'm fine with the Vulkn clan rats being in Mors army.

    I just want to clarify that I consider Queek an "underway fighter" for lore reasons and not gameplay ones. Indeed, being one of the contender for K8P, he's mainly fighting underground In the lore. It then follows that his thematic stack should use units efficient in underway fights, in the lore, which means warpfire throwers and poison wind globadiers, who would benefit from fighting in small enclosed spaces.

    In that sense, he's a bit similar to belegar who would fight underway, in the lore, with Miners with Snatchels, ironbrakers, irondrakes and flamethrowers, etc...

    Not really having to do with Underway fights in the game, from my point of view (even though poison winds and warpfires aren't too bad in underway battles to be honest)

    About Death Runners, they are more anti infantry whereas triads are anti large. And you're facing more infantry than large units in campaign as Eshin (a lot of Dwarfs). As I am not using the melee unit in a frontline configuration, but instead as a strike force against designated target once the gutter runners soften it enough, death runners were more efficient in dealing with infantry target quickly then triads.
    But it's the way how I play skirmish armies (Sniktch, Oxyotl and Alith Anar): mass skirmishing from the start, luring the remaining damaged. units to a specific place to be taken down by my melee units without suffering too muh damage. Works like a charm. I'm taking more death runners because there is usually more infantry than large to deal with in that way.

    Finally, I am flattered that you take my input into account. I thought I finally found a kindred spirit when you started this series of topics, because using thematic armies is the only way I can play the game (and it's giving me great satisfaction). So I know now I'm not alone doing that. :smile:
    Post edited by MiniaAr on
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 30,079
    Cool thread, thanks for putting in the effort.
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  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359
    MiniaAr said:

    It's been a long time since I last played Ikkit, I'm curious now, what buffs does he give to warp grinders?

    I'm fine with the Vulkn clan rats being in Mors army.

    I just want to clarify that I consider Queek an "underway fighter" for lore reasons and not gameplay ones. Indeed, being one of the contender for K8P, he's mainly fighting underground In the lore. It then follows that his thematic stack should use units efficient in underway fights, in the lore, which means warpfire throwers and poison wind globadiers, who would benefit from fighting in small enclosed spaces.

    In that sense, he's a bit similar to belegar who would fight underway, in the lore, with Miners with Snatchels, ironbrakers, irondrakes and flamethrowers, etc...

    Not really having to do with Underway fights in the game, from my point of view (even though poison winds and warpfires aren't too bad in underway battles to be honest)

    About Death Runners, they are more anti infantry whereas triads are anti large. And you're facing more infantry than large units in campaign as Eshin (a lot of Dwarfs). As I am not using the melee unit in a frontline configuration, but instead as a strike force against designated target once the gutter runners soften it enough, death runners were more efficient in dealing with infantry target quickly then triads.
    But it's the way how I play skirmish armies (Sniktch, Oxyotl and Alith Anar): mass skirmishing from the start, luring the remaining damaged. units to a specific place to be taken down by my melee units without suffering too muh damage. Works like a charm. I'm taking more death runners because there is usually more infantry than large to deal with in that way.

    Finally, I am flattered that you take my input into account. I thought I finally found a kindred spirit when you started this series of topics, because using thematic armies is the only way I can play the game (and it's giving me great satisfaction). So I know now I'm not alone doing that. :smile:

    https://m.imgur.com/r/totalwar/dJXDgrz

    He gives them +30 melee attack, makes them unbreakable and grants 50% damage resistance when above 50% health, and gives them regeneration and the expendable trait.

    Thank you for clarifying about Queek; that makes much more sense. I thought that it was an uncharacteristic point for you to make, but now I get it.

    I have only played Snikch's Vortex campaign, so anti-large was very much in play then. I can see the more anti-infantry angle in ME, though Imrik and the Greenskins are still huffing around.

    And of course I consider your input. I never played the tabletop and I don't own any armybooks. I am far from a lore expert but I've picked up a lot from the forum and I do my best. Plus, I have a confession: I am mildly considering starting a YouTube channel in which I showcase thematic campaigns. Fine-tuning these army builds gives me the lists that I may end up playing out for a wider audience, so I really do want feedback. You actually provide reasons for your suggestions, which is great.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359

    Cool thread, thanks for putting in the effort.

    Thank you!
  • SnakeMajinSnakeMajin Registered Users Posts: 125
    With all the campaigns you started to see the starting units (as well as heroes), and LL skill lines, do you happen to have a comprehensive list of the following :
    - Starting units for each Lord in Mortal Empires
    - Starting units for each Lord in Vortex
    - Starting hero, like Eltharion's Cavill

    I'm working on a big tab with a bit of information for all units : the building tier they come from, the game, DLC or FLC they come from, which Legendary Lord buffs them etc. all this to have a quick idea of which units could be thematic for a Lord.

    I didn't take the time to note all starting units yet, nor start each campaign in each mode to see which hero is in, except for the Lizardmen, hence my question.

    It's in my native language, but I think about translating it in English, should I get free time : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NxN0l2JsNpkWxxMs_M3AfJK7m956PupR/view?usp=sharing
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,287
    Very nice idea @SnakeMajin

    I'm French as well so I of course understand the spreadsheet very well. I'm guessing you're playing the game in French because some of those names can be tricky to find the correct translation.

    If you don't mind, and as I'm playing with the game in English, I could work on the translation based on your original document. With your permission of course.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 359

    With all the campaigns you started to see the starting units (as well as heroes), and LL skill lines, do you happen to have a comprehensive list of the following :
    - Starting units for each Lord in Mortal Empires
    - Starting units for each Lord in Vortex
    - Starting hero, like Eltharion's Cavill

    I'm working on a big tab with a bit of information for all units : the building tier they come from, the game, DLC or FLC they come from, which Legendary Lord buffs them etc. all this to have a quick idea of which units could be thematic for a Lord.

    I didn't take the time to note all starting units yet, nor start each campaign in each mode to see which hero is in, except for the Lizardmen, hence my question.

    It's in my native language, but I think about translating it in English, should I get free time : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NxN0l2JsNpkWxxMs_M3AfJK7m956PupR/view?usp=sharing

    That would be a useful document! Those are the first things that I check before I start making my lists, apart from starting heroes because many of those were put in before we had complete rosters and they may or may not fit thematically. Unfortunately for our current content, I only have the Tomb Kings left to investigate haha but I could definitely make use of something like this for TWW3, and it's a good resource for the community at large.
  • SnakeMajinSnakeMajin Registered Users Posts: 125
    MiniaAr said:

    Very nice idea @SnakeMajin

    I'm French as well so I of course understand the spreadsheet very well. I'm guessing you're playing the game in French because some of those names can be tricky to find the correct translation.

    If you don't mind, and as I'm playing with the game in English, I could work on the translation based on your original document. With your permission of course.

    Sure, go ahead for the translation. I do play the game in French, I even wrote what I feel were some mistakes they did in terms of plural/singular. I'll the rather try to note all starting units and heroes during my next day off.
  • mulrichmulrich Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 33
    Thanks again for making these, GoldfishLord.

    I noticed something, though: for Tretch Craventail's army, you have 21 units. Personally, I removed one of the night runner units.
  • IoriYamadaIoriYamada WalesRegistered Users Posts: 792
    Be nice to see Natty Bubo's crew with Queek.
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