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Creating a North American Warhammer Faction

DreamTraveler3DreamTraveler3 Registered Users Posts: 42
In some long lost, distant corner of time and space, or some parallel timeline to the world of fantasy, Naggaroth looks a bit different. The Dark Elves aren't as dominant and don't have as much complete control over the continent. Instead what happens is more of a Lustria situation, where colonists from the Old World make landfall and begin establishing settlements and taking control over various territories of their own in the pine forests and western plains and deserts of the continent. What's more they encounter already existent tribes of humans who had settled there in ancient history and have developed their own culture and share a deep connection with the land. Strange and mysterious creatures dwell throughout the untamed forests of this great frontier, old spirits are communed with by shamans and animal-like shapeshifters dwell the land, covens of witchcraft pop up in the northeast and mountain ranges much to the chagrin of the more puritanical and devout settlers, folk heroes emerge from the tall tales of men giant in deed and stature who tame the savage wilderness, rangers, sheriffs, and marshals ride out on the western cattle plains and war with the native tribesmen all while hearing strange and peculiar tales of the undead rising among the dusty landscape, countryfolk settle and feud in the hills of the central mountains, great cries of revolution from their distant homeland swell, and through it all rings a spirit of a new age...

There would be so much to work with for something like this lol. The stories of the northern New World's past is as diverse as they come.

Early American settler and Pilgrim history

https://cdn.wallpapersafari.com/90/46/q69vDP.jpg

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0895/0864/products/xir153760_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1453627839

Fearsome Critters of the Lumberwoods

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dystopiamatt/fearsome-wilderness-the-board-game-and-miniatures-collection

https://i1.wp.com/www.geektopiagames.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/fearsome-wilderness-minis-rack.png?resize=960,467&ssl=1

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Fearsome_critters_minis_fearsome_wilderness.jpg/1200px-Fearsome_critters_minis_fearsome_wilderness.jpg

The New England witchcraft hysteria

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/0/0b/Abigail_Williams.png/revision/latest?cb=20111014061730

https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/Gje-SGm5N4VKOn3o1RitDATlXWM=/3278x2185/filters:fill(auto,1)/Bridget-Bishop-Salem-83931673X1-56aa22b93df78cf772ac8623.jpg

Famous figures from North American literature and urban legend

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/6c/36/ef6c3645f4dfc35ef64d2dda321de6ad.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/33/49/823349b40b862db06dd808ed9d6fc6ff.jpg

Appalachia feuding

https://trailsheaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Hatfield-family-2-copy.jpg

Ozarks legends

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/a9/da/34a9da9ac506045e6b05942244cf8c7b.jpg

https://www.quotev.com/quizi/6772392/2/13

Folk Heroes like Paul Bunyan and his other larger than life contemporaries

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/2/paul-bunyan-and-babe-angus-mcbride.jpg

https://img.texasmonthly.com/1999/04/Pecos-Bill-e1485917604834.jpg?auto=compress&crop=faces&fit=crop&fm=jpg&h=1050&ixlib=php-1.2.1&q=45&w=1400

https://live.staticflickr.com/3548/3342998571_cdb7b29838_b.jpg

https://salemghosts.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Screen-Shot-2020-09-19-at-8.34.18-PM.png

https://stacker.com/stories/3854/25-american-folk-heroes-and-stories-behind-them

Both the eastern, western, and northern Native Americans and their legends, like Thunderbirds, owl witches, skin-walkers, and wendigos

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/6f/6f/096f6fc22f65b237416acdae6099e465.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/af/fd/ea/affdead938d74239994ac8ccd7c13b6b.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f5/13/42/f513426b2c00738023b15587c6666780.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b5/53/01/b553013977015e5368d5f07bb740f30c.jpg

https://allthatsinteresting.com/native-american-monsters

The Wild West

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e2/09/2e/e2092e71140db40d5b50dd48ce987c38.jpg

https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-dcvfa4/products/3093/images/2695/JM112_Wild-Wild-West---__17951.1460475203.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

The Weird West

https://assets1.ignimgs.com/thumbs/userUploaded/2020/7/10/weirdwestthumb1-1594411485024.jpg

https://external-preview.redd.it/5Ot-epsLjjtOYoKBJdaixFWkMcdh4j5rKDAEutdC0Ww.jpg?auto=webp&s=0a3c3b48a5fca47f900213504dea7532c2d7912b

The American Revolution and Civil War and the distinctive outfits, events and tech of the time

https://imgix.ranker.com/list_img_v2/2558/2762558/original/best-american-revolution-paintings

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/80/30/7780300bec77a2115ec3d936f4fc1bd1.jpg

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/civwar.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1600&h=900&crop=1

Just so much well known history and fantasy myths that one could Warhammerize into the setting and satire in awesome ways.

Even if it's something that Games Workshop never really did with their world, I for one really enjoy trying to come up with new ideas for seeing what it'd be like for something like this to happen and fit in with the rest of the world's story. It began when I was researching their Legends of the Old West historical battles game and I've kinda been hooked since haha.

What would you think about an idea like this? If you could write your own lore about how you'd create a Warhammer version of North American history, it's creatures, inhabitants, and it's impact on the story what would your vision look like?

Comments

  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,092
    What about the Dark Elves ? They are the North American in the Warhammer World

    Other wise you have the various Empire's Colony in the New World
  • Jote191Jote191 Registered Users Posts: 1,345
    I would want to see a Native American inspired race. They are way more interesting then the European settlers. Also GW made some amazing stuff with the Mayan, Incan, Aztec, inspired Lizardmen race.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 1,885
    I think @sykall had a pretty interesting writeup on his list of fanmade factions.

    His idea of Eddu confederacy was really interesting.

    Here is a link to a thread where he had all of his ideas put into one document.
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting#latest

    I would like to see a respectful take on Native American groups from North America being done in Warhammer Fantasy.

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,609
    SaintCorn said:



    I would like to see a respectful take on Native American groups from North America being done in Warhammer Fantasy.

    You won t see that.

    it´s gonna be loaded with steroetypes and prolly combined with something else.


    Also you do have Natives in Naggaroth, the Marauder tribes.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,730
    edited August 19
    What you need is tauren! (joking) Btw dark elves are warhammer's North Korea. That they are located in ''North America'' is irrelevant.
    Prettiest of the foot overlords.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,085
    The Empire DLC from game 2 is pretty close.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 5,167
    Well, technically North America in Fantasy is populated by Dark Elves and Chaos Tribes, so the only native humans you would find there would be aligned to Chaos.

    Also, when it comes to "respectfull representation", that is not the point of Warhammer Fantasy, South America is represented by Dinos riding Dinos with Space Lasers, Bretonnia is " what if the Arthurian legend happened in France in a Monty Phyton film"...

    Fantasy takes inspiration from real world countries and places, but it doesn't try to portray them faithfully or respectufully, they aren't going to trash on your ensure culture either, but what you are asking you won't find it here.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 1,885

    Well, technically North America in Fantasy is populated by Dark Elves and Chaos Tribes, so the only native humans you would find there would be aligned to Chaos.

    Also, when it comes to "respectfull representation", that is not the point of Warhammer Fantasy, South America is represented by Dinos riding Dinos with Space Lasers, Bretonnia is " what if the Arthurian legend happened in France in a Monty Phyton film"...

    Fantasy takes inspiration from real world countries and places, but it doesn't try to portray them faithfully or respectufully, they aren't going to trash on your ensure culture either, but what you are asking you won't find it here.

    Certain cultures are satirized to an extent, and that's fine.
    Others are made more fantasy esque or take inspiration from a multitude of sources.

    By "respectful representation", I meant don't make something very flagrantly bad like the pygmies.

  • SoepkiekenSoepkieken Registered Users Posts: 152
    edited August 19
    Dark Elves:

    - Slave economy
    - Cause terror all around the world, so everybody is afraid of them
    - Very individualistic culture
    - Came from another continent originally, they are not really native to this "New World", although they have claimed it for themselves as their homeland
    - Look down on the rest of the world

    => Seems very much to be a satire of the U.S.A
    Post edited by Soepkieken on
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 5,167
    SaintCorn said:

    Well, technically North America in Fantasy is populated by Dark Elves and Chaos Tribes, so the only native humans you would find there would be aligned to Chaos.

    Also, when it comes to "respectfull representation", that is not the point of Warhammer Fantasy, South America is represented by Dinos riding Dinos with Space Lasers, Bretonnia is " what if the Arthurian legend happened in France in a Monty Phyton film"...

    Fantasy takes inspiration from real world countries and places, but it doesn't try to portray them faithfully or respectufully, they aren't going to trash on your ensure culture either, but what you are asking you won't find it here.

    Certain cultures are satirized to an extent, and that's fine.
    Others are made more fantasy esque or take inspiration from a multitude of sources.

    By "respectful representation", I meant don't make something very flagrantly bad like the pygmies.
    I think we all can agree that GW doesn't want something like the Pygmies either.
  • GrimmtoofGrimmtoof Registered Users Posts: 8
    Well based on the equivalent fractions in Warhammer a north American faction should be a force of Sigmarite fanatics who left the Empire because they couldn't burn all non believers.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,049
    edited August 19
    SaintCorn said:

    I think @sykall had a pretty interesting writeup on his list of fanmade factions.

    His idea of Eddu confederacy was really interesting.

    Here is a link to a thread where he had all of his ideas put into one document.
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting#latest

    I would like to see a respectful take on Native American groups from North America being done in Warhammer Fantasy.

    Thanks for the shout-out SaintCorn :smile:

    Yeah I think North America and by extension Naggaroth are a wide field to be explored.
    In warhammers case Naggaroth is a huge continent, but the actual territory held by the Dark Elves is fairly small. The rest is sadly empty except for underdeveloped marauders or greenskins as filler.

    Personally I would like to see a faction based on one or many native american cultures, as I find them far more interesting to translate into warhammer.

    Now I do not claim to have respectfully represented these cultures, but I tried to create some kind of warhammed version so to speak.
    If I may summarize the Eddu confederacy in short: They are a union of Halfling and Ogre subspecies native to naggaroth and elven settlers living there before the elvem civil war. When the DE retreated into Naggaroth they enslaved all three groups and the survivors fled into reclusive areas of central naggaroth and formed united settlements for mutual defense.

    Like the seminoles they are thus a mixture of native people and immigrants living in reclusive areas, and like the Haudenosaunee they forme form a confederacy of equal partners. I found this to be a nice foil against the DE, who are pure invaders driven to be masters of all.

    But many other possibilities may exist for Naggaroth. North America is a continent rich in cultures and myths after all. These do not have to be human too, but insteaed may be creatures based on folk tales. E.g. the eddu ogres were heavily based on sasquatches, whereas the eddu halflings were based on folktale dwarfs.

    And even without using a real world template, warhammer itself may provide other possibilites through the already established lore.
    E.g. a faction based purley around escaped slaves as I heard as a proposal elsewhere. This would be a formate that could be shaped into many, many different ways.
    Other points of interest are naggaroths underworld sea which is also said to inhabit unique but sapient creatures.
    And if I recall correctly there are also mentions of scaled creatures (not Lizardmen) there. Interestingly some native american cultures like the Zuni people had creation myths about lizardmen living underground.
    It may also possible to reform the Amazons into a new form. Based around pan american myths like eldorado and the fountain of youth. Or to mix them with other native american cultures than aztecs, as the LM have this covered. Something I attempted a while ago: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/259654/expanded-gameplay-concept-amazons/p1

    In the end Naggaroth is full of possibilities. And it would be cool to expand it further and give it more content.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,359
    edited August 19
    I've always argued that Naggaroth and Lustria needed another unique faction residing there. Lizardmen and Dark Elves is fine, but it could be better. And transplanting factions from the Old World (beastmen, greenskin, undead, etc.) can only go so far.


    Personally I think thet should have been a Neutral race to balance out the Order Lizardmen and Destruction Dark Elves. A wild card. Additionally, I think it would be beneficial for them to have settlements both in the north and south.

    This makes the case for someone living in the mountain ranges that run north to south along the entirety of the New World. So something mountain dwelling, perhaps?

    I've argued that a bird-people inspired by North American natives and maybe Incas or possibly even other mountain people (like Tibetans or Afghans or something) could be cool.

    Another possibility could be someone living along the western coast of the New World. Maybe something wild and wacky, like cthulhu-inspired octopus-people, or maybe something like Maori/Polynesian-inspired sea people/sharkmen or something like that. Whatever, as long as the idea is cool.

    Of course, you can also play with the idea of the Dark Elf Shade tribes living in the wastes becoming their own faction, but then that would be ANOTHER elf faction, and I think it wouldn't really make sense. You could make a faction of escaped Dark Elf slaves, but honestly isn't that basically just the same as Marauders or just another human faction(possibly with some extra non-humans thrown in)?

    A native race of unique centaurs could be kinda neat, based on Great Plains North American Indians, maybe with some Pueblo-style fortresses located deep in the steppes and deserts, where they hoard their loot or mercenary payments, and raise their families. But of course centaurs in the form of centigors are already a part of the Beastmen roster, so it might be redundant.

    A last, ludicrous a completely left-field idea would be something that Warhammer doesn't really have (except a single mention in a novel): bug people. You could have a race of intelligent insect folk living in GIANT termite-mount style fortress cities on the plain in southern Naggaoroth bordering Lustria or along the western coast, with different castes having different roles (warriors, workers, fliers, scouts, basically different unit roles), and the different mounds/hives could have lots of bickering politics and intrigue, with unique heraldry and history for them.

    Not a hivemind like the Zerg or Tyranids, but individual thinkers, just very tightly organized under their respective queens or something like that.

    Their technology could be organic, sorta like bonemold or chitin armor from Morrowind, but they could wear lots of decoration on their bodies, like painting their shells with patterns or hanging beads of amber from their antennae or something. I'm just spitballing.

    I realize that this isn't a super-unique idea, but it doesn't really overlap with any other Warhammer race, it kinda fits the terrain and climate, and it has a nice niche between the Lizardmen and Dark Elves.
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,359
    Grimmtoof said:

    Well based on the equivalent fractions in Warhammer a north American faction should be a force of Sigmarite fanatics who left the Empire because they couldn't burn all non believers.

    We already have a group of Dark Elves who left Ulthuan because they couldn't murder all their enemies. The colonist trope has already been covered, honestly.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,049
    edited August 19

    I've always argued that Naggaroth and Lustria needed another unique faction residing there. Lizardmen and Dark Elves is fine, but it could be better. And transplanting factions from the Old World (beastmen, greenskin, undead, etc.) can only go so far.


    Personally I think thet should have been a Neutral race to balance out the Order Lizardmen and Destruction Dark Elves. A wild card. Additionally, I think it would be beneficial for them to have settlements both in the north and south.

    This makes the case for someone living in the mountain ranges that run north to south along the entirety of the New World. So something mountain dwelling, perhaps?

    I've argued that a bird-people inspired by North American natives and maybe Incas or possibly even other mountain people (like Tibetans or Afghans or something) could be cool.

    Another possibility could be someone living along the western coast of the New World. Maybe something wild and wacky, like cthulhu-inspired octopus-people, or maybe something like Maori/Polynesian-inspired sea people/sharkmen or something like that. Whatever, as long as the idea is cool.

    Of course, you can also play with the idea of the Dark Elf Shade tribes living in the wastes becoming their own faction, but then that would be ANOTHER elf faction, and I think it wouldn't really make sense. You could make a faction of escaped Dark Elf slaves, but honestly isn't that basically just the same as Marauders or just another human faction(possibly with some extra non-humans thrown in)?

    A native race of unique centaurs could be kinda neat, based on Great Plains North American Indians, maybe with some Pueblo-style fortresses located deep in the steppes and deserts, where they hoard their loot or mercenary payments, and raise their families. But of course centaurs in the form of centigors are already a part of the Beastmen roster, so it might be redundant.

    A last, ludicrous a completely left-field idea would be something that Warhammer doesn't really have (except a single mention in a novel): bug people. You could have a race of intelligent insect folk living in GIANT termite-mount style fortress cities on the plain in southern Naggaoroth bordering Lustria or along the western coast, with different castes having different roles (warriors, workers, fliers, scouts, basically different unit roles), and the different mounds/hives could have lots of bickering politics and intrigue, with unique heraldry and history for them.

    Not a hivemind like the Zerg or Tyranids, but individual thinkers, just very tightly organized under their respective queens or something like that.

    Their technology could be organic, sorta like bonemold or chitin armor from Morrowind, but they could wear lots of decoration on their bodies, like painting their shells with patterns or hanging beads of amber from their antennae or something. I'm just spitballing.

    I realize that this isn't a super-unique idea, but it doesn't really overlap with any other Warhammer race, it kinda fits the terrain and climate, and it has a nice niche between the Lizardmen and Dark Elves.

    Stop giving md ideas for future faction concepts :tongue: Indeed I wanted to place bug people in Naggaroth a while ago, along the Eddu and Izwan. Though I was not satisfied with this version and left it out. Something like the necrophages from Endless Legend for example, but more individualistic.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 1,638
    Grimmtoof said:

    Well based on the equivalent fractions in Warhammer a north American faction should be a force of Sigmarite fanatics who left the Empire because they couldn't burn all non believers.

    There have been multiple waves of colonists to America that consist of many cultural and religious groups so a generalisation like this doesn't really work.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • EterlikEterlik Registered Users Posts: 335
    Don't darkelves already picture an american culture quiet well?
    Keeping slaves, thinking they deserve more no matter how much they have, living their lifes in gluttony for pleasure, raiding other countries and the ruler is some kind of maniac that thinks the world belongs to him (would fit more on trump).

    Just wanted to write this as a satyr but im suprised how many of misinterpreted arguments actually fit :-S
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 24,358
    Jote191 said:

    I would want to see a Native American inspired race. They are way more interesting then the European settlers. Also GW made some amazing stuff with the Mayan, Incan, Aztec, inspired Lizardmen race.

    Centaurs kinda had that role back in older editions before they were turned into savage chaos creatures.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,584
    edited August 20
    TeNoSkill said:

    SaintCorn said:



    I would like to see a respectful take on Native American groups from North America being done in Warhammer Fantasy.

    You won t see that.

    it´s gonna be loaded with steroetypes and prolly combined with something else.


    Also you do have Natives in Naggaroth, the Marauder tribes.
    Cracks me up that people expect 'respectful' and 'Warhammer' in the same sentence when the current Dark Elves are based on the very worst of the united states.

    Slavery = needs no explanation.
    Black Arks = also takes about a single brain cell to work out.
    Incestuous leaders that are wicked for wickedness sake with things like blood sacrifices and cannibalism are a very much tongue and cheek hint at the secret societies like Skull and Bones and the conspiracy theories about what really goes on in US elite circles.
    Global network of spies and assassins = take your pick of whichever 3 letter agency.

    Of course Warhammer has takes multiple real world cultures and blends them to avoid being accused of just straight copying. And no race in Warhammer so far has escaped the same fate as the DE. Although being an antagonist race they're more /overt/ with the depictions.


    To do a Native American based race and not have it filled to the brim with over the top and tongue and cheek real world stereotypes, issues and themes would be racist.

    You could make them an "order" race which would take some of the nasty stuff below surface level cursory readings, and might make the DE more interesting in turn. But I'd want to see them as more than just Humanoid Lizardmen. As I said, no race in Warhammer has only 1 cultural source.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • DarthEnderXDarthEnderX Registered Users Posts: 629
    edited August 20
    While Naggaroth could use a couple more factions for sure, I have little interest in those factions being based on American settlers or weird rural subcultures. The only thing I'd find even slightly interesting there is wild west gunslingers.

    The obvious lore choice for a Naggaroth faction is the fishmen of the Underworld Sea.

    Another option is always The Sleeper's race.
    Jote191 said:

    I would want to see a Native American inspired race. They are way more interesting then the European settlers. Also GW made some amazing stuff with the Mayan, Incan, Aztec, inspired Lizardmen race.

    I'm down for that as long as they aren't human.

    Maybe you could do something like gnolls. Which are a fantasy staple that is currently missing from Warhammer.

    Dark Elves:

    - Slave economy
    - Cause terror all around the world, so everybody is afraid of them
    - Very individualistic culture
    - Came from another continent originally, they are not really native to this "New World", although they have claimed it for themselves as their homeland
    - Look down on the rest of the world

    => Seems very much to be a satire of the U.S.A

    They're not based on Americans though. They're based on Drow. Maybe there's some commentary from GW at play in their decision to stick their Drow in NA, but it's not a direct parallel.

  • Icebern12Icebern12 Registered Users Posts: 202

    Well, technically North America in Fantasy is populated by Dark Elves and Chaos Tribes, so the only native humans you would find there would be aligned to Chaos.

    Also, when it comes to "respectfull representation", that is not the point of Warhammer Fantasy, South America is represented by Dinos riding Dinos with Space Lasers, Bretonnia is " what if the Arthurian legend happened in France in a Monty Phyton film"...

    Fantasy takes inspiration from real world countries and places, but it doesn't try to portray them faithfully or respectufully, they aren't going to trash on your ensure culture either, but what you are asking you won't find it here.

    The arturian legend actually began in France
This discussion has been closed.