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Patch 1.12.1 and Beta opt-in

2

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  • GrithokGrithok Registered Users Posts: 32
    edited September 2021
    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.
  • RockNRolla92RockNRolla92 Registered Users Posts: 2,291
    Grithok said:

    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.

    I mean that does make logical sense though, the 3 dudes in the back who don't hit anyway shouldn't be getting charge attacks
  • HL230P45#1277HL230P45#1277 Registered Users Posts: 377
    What does "Khazrak and Morghur can no longer re-emerge after their death." mean? Is it that the player is in the race against the clock to confederate them playing as other beastmen lords?
  • sykall#1105sykall#1105 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,001
    HL230P45 said:

    What does "Khazrak and Morghur can no longer re-emerge after their death." mean? Is it that the player is in the race against the clock to confederate them playing as other beastmen lords?

    I think the bug was, that after you confederated them, they could respawn still, letting two kazhraks running around.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Killertut#9655Killertut#9655 Registered Users Posts: 1,110


    is that facemask of the coatl new?
  • drogarito#2548drogarito#2548 Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    now he doesn't look like overfed chicken. Good job CA.
  • armored_valiant#9449armored_valiant#9449 Member Registered Users Posts: 144
    edited September 2021
    Counter charging "armor piercing" infantry SHOULD be somewhat effect vs charging cavalry

    In history, elite infantry equipped to deal with cavalry could get into the formation and bring horse and rider down.

    At the battle of Fengji Temple during the An Lushan rebellion, for example, mobile infantry counter charged the opponent's cavalry, chopped through the horses' legs and toppled the riders, "horse and rider were split apart", "the infantry advanced like a wall, each wielding their own blade"

    Ancient Germans also had fast infantry running alongside their own cavalry to chop horse legs and pull down riders once the sides engaged. These made their way into Rome 2 as the Suebi "Horse Runners"

    Of course, soldiers need appropriate weapons and/or tactics. The Tang infantry had special long blades among their elite vanguard troops (kind of like grenadiers) specifically for horse chopping. Something can be accomplished with a smaller blade as well like presumably the early Germans, and other occasions.

    "Armor piercing" infantry can stand in for such troops, so it is precisely they who should retain some effective capability against charging cavalry. Specialized horse chopping blades developed for use against cataphracts, so horse armor is no excuse
  • ITA_Vae_VictisITA_Vae_Victis Senior Member ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 2,002
    Killertut said:



    is that facemask of the coatl new?

    No, it's a mod.
  • Otjenyn#3516Otjenyn#3516 Registered Users Posts: 294
    edited September 2021
    These are the only patchnotes? Or is there another whole page somewhere?

    Because I am missing some pretty old stuff that has been reported well I don't know about a zillion times?
    Missing buildings, buildingchains or garrisons in provinces/settlements like:
    -White Tower of Hoeth (Dark library for DE is missing)
    -Desolation of Drakenmoor (no garrison for some factions f.e. dwarfs)
    -Mount Gunbad (no garrison for some factions f.e. tombkings)
    -Fortress of Vorag wrong building chain for almost every faction
    -Awakening wrong building chain for some factions (norsca)
    -Herdstone bug in Konquata, Brasskeep and Witchwood
    -Ka-Sabar wrong building chain for some factions (lizardmen)

    Starting some campaigns with some factions on different campaign difficulty or over different campaigns increases the amount of units in the enemy starting army by absurd amounts:

    -The best example is Chevaliers du Lyonesse, having the same start in 2 campaigns regarding their own starting units.
    However even on easy difficulty level, her Vortex campaign faces a 20 unit stack on turn-1 first battle from Strygoi. On ME, the strygoi army has only 8 units on very hard....

    But other examples are the Last defenders in the Vortex campaign facing a skaven clan, going from hard to very hard with an 11 unit increase (from 5 tot 16).

    Missing growth and public order in all old world WH1 faction unique capitals
    - Miragliano (which also inherited a text error from WH1) (missing growth and public order)
    - Altdorf (growth and public order)
    - Castle Drakenhof (growth and public order)
    - Kislev (growth and public order)
    - Couronne (growth)

    Unit card of Henri le massif says anti-infantry while being anti-large...

    Durthu's Sword of Daith gives him magical attacks. However Durthu by default has magical attacks.

    And there is problably tons more. I mean people build their own freaking community mod because of the insane amount of bugs.
    Just copy paste and give them credit?






  • Masarius#7206Masarius#7206 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,441
    A surprise but much welcomed - well done :)
    Till shade is gone,
    till water is gone,
    into the Shadow with the teeth bared,
    screaming defiance with the last breath,
    to spit into Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day
  • Rubz2293#7512Rubz2293#7512 Registered Users Posts: 593
    edited September 2021
    Otjenyn said:

    These are the only patchnotes? Or is there another whole page somewhere?

    Because I am missing some pretty old stuff that has been reported well I don't know about a zillion times?
    Missing buildings, buildingchains or garrisons in provinces/settlements like:
    -White Tower of Hoeth (Dark library for DE is missing)
    -Desolation of Drakenmoor (no garrison for some factions f.e. dwarfs)
    -Mount Gunbad (no garrison for some factions f.e. tombkings)
    -Fortress of Vorag wrong building chain for almost every faction
    -Awakening wrong building chain for some factions (norsca)
    -Herdstone bug in Konquata, Brasskeep and Witchwood
    -Ka-Sabar wrong building chain for some factions (lizardmen)

    Starting some campaigns with some factions on different campaign difficulty or over different campaigns increases the amount of units in the enemy starting army by absurd amounts:

    -The best example is Chevaliers du Lyonesse, having the same start in 2 campaigns regarding their own starting units.
    However even on easy difficulty level, her Vortex campaign faces a 20 unit stack on turn-1 first battle from Strygoi. On ME, the strygoi army has only 8 units on very hard....

    But other examples are the Last defenders in the Vortex campaign facing a skaven clan, going from hard to very hard with an 11 unit increase (from 5 tot 16).

    Missing growth and public order in all old world WH1 faction unique capitals
    - Miragliano (which also inherited a text error from WH1) (missing growth and public order)
    - Altdorf (growth and public order)
    - Castle Drakenhof (growth and public order)
    - Kislev (growth and public order)
    - Couronne (growth)

    Unit card of Henri le massif says anti-infantry while being anti-large...

    Durthu's Sword of Daith gives him magical attacks. However Durthu by default has magical attacks.

    And there is problably tons more. I mean people build their own freaking community mod because of the insane amount of bugs.
    Just copy paste and give them credit?






    Took them a long time to push out a hotfix patch, they probably didn't even bother to look at longstanding issues.
    CA probably don't even know about the bugs section on their own forum, I've reported a bug only to to find that bug still existing a year later; and have reported it again. Nothing happens. And this was during the prime of WH2.
    Post edited by Rubz2293#7512 on
  • SusaVile#9835SusaVile#9835 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,430
    A question that has been popping up:

    Do the patch changes apply to the beta opt-in, or if we are in the beta opt-in, the patch changes are not applied? Or better, does the beta opt-in also include the patch changes? Heard people worried and commenting of a note saying it did not? Any clarification, CA?

    thank you

    Always learning, be polite, unless he's the enemy:P
    Cheers
    SusaVile
    Total war youtuber
  • capybarasiesta89#4722capybarasiesta89#4722 Senior Member Edinburgh, ScotlandRegistered Users Posts: 5,456
    I have opte
    SusaVile said:

    A question that has been popping up:

    Do the patch changes apply to the beta opt-in, or if we are in the beta opt-in, the patch changes are not applied? Or better, does the beta opt-in also include the patch changes? Heard people worried and commenting of a note saying it did not? Any clarification, CA?

    thank you

    Apparently it's not included in Beta it's only Cav changes, doesn't include new patch at all. So I am going to hold in with Beta for now usually I am opted in.
    h1feizw8yzk6.jpg
  • BC2020#8138BC2020#8138 Registered Users Posts: 60
    Anyone else's update stuck on "patching". The download only took a mins, but the patching part has been going on for over an hour. This is way longer than my computer took for any DLC.
  • drogarito#2548drogarito#2548 Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    it was installed in haf an hour or so.
  • CA_DuckCA_Duck Registered Users, CA Staff Posts: 1,679
    Grithok said:

    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.

    When cavalry charged into infantry, the back ranks seldom had a chance to attack before. Infantry were generally best placed to take advantage of the bug.
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • Nitros14#7973Nitros14#7973 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,896
    edited September 2021
    These bracing and countercharge changes seem really good.
  • Nico_NI#4726Nico_NI#4726 Registered Users Posts: 468
    CA_Duck said:

    Grithok said:

    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.

    When cavalry charged into infantry, the back ranks seldom had a chance to attack before. Infantry were generally best placed to take advantage of the bug.
    Does this mean that the bretonnian Lance formation becomes more important? Because I think that in that formation there are more models who get in direct contact whit the enemy on the charge, right?
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,390
    I feel like non-polearm and non-charge-defense units should have less bracing power than they do. Lances/Spears from horseback offer a decisive advantage in such scenarios. Or maybe just add something to make those cavalry units better at overcoming the bracing of units that don't have polearms/charge defense - or apply a debuff, something.

    Remember that spears and the like were the most common weapon in warfare for a very long time. In this game you're more likely to see a few token spears and a lot of everything else, when it should be the other way around.
  • HL230P45#1277HL230P45#1277 Registered Users Posts: 377
    CA_Duck said:

    Grithok said:

    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.

    When cavalry charged into infantry, the back ranks seldom had a chance to attack before. Infantry were generally best placed to take advantage of the bug.
    CA_Duck, do you think it is possible to adjust AI bahavior to current changes? I installed the beta, ran some quick tests, and greatweapon infantry, like marauder greatweapons, still doing fine counter-charging heave cavalry and monstrous infantry. In fact, they do twice the damage when compared to bracing. The AI controlling infantry always order its greatweapon infantry to brace for cav charge when it would be more beneficial to it to charge into cavalry.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,303
    Nico_NI said:

    CA_Duck said:

    Grithok said:

    I have a concern with the wording here.

    "Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:

    This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well."

    Does this also mean that cavalry charging into infantry, the back ranks no longer get a charge attack?
    This is more important to the bretonnian formations where they have more people behind the front row than in a wide formation.

    When cavalry charged into infantry, the back ranks seldom had a chance to attack before. Infantry were generally best placed to take advantage of the bug.
    Does this mean that the bretonnian Lance formation becomes more important? Because I think that in that formation there are more models who get in direct contact whit the enemy on the charge, right?
    pretty sure its the opposite though unfortunately , this update will make it less impactful , but make cavalry wider formations more impactful

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Losto94Losto94 Registered Users Posts: 1
    After the patch, part of the text in the Russian version of the game disappeared. Please fix it

  • Grom_the_Paunch#8146Grom_the_Paunch#8146 Registered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 2,721
    Some posts removed for discussing each other, rather than the topic. Stay on target, please. Don't get personal.
  • Wotan135Wotan135 Registered Users Posts: 3
    Well, I think it could be good move to cancel counter charge with infantry, but there is need some patch to fix spearmen and Halberds for all faction.. I am not shure but I think the bonus vs front charge isn't 180° and even they stand still they don't have big chance..There is need some sort of formation option for example square for better defence from rear and side atacks of this upgraded cavalry because now your army without own cavalry is automaticaly doomed...because line of anti cav infantry can't turn without charge without your def bonus...and some form of phalanx because if you charge directly to front of army of spears and easily win and get even throw..there is somethink wrong.. and it could be even little bit helpfull against Giants and big monsters.
  • MGH1#5018MGH1#5018 Member Registered Users Posts: 274
    edited September 2021

    I have opte

    SusaVile said:

    A question that has been popping up:

    Do the patch changes apply to the beta opt-in, or if we are in the beta opt-in, the patch changes are not applied? Or better, does the beta opt-in also include the patch changes? Heard people worried and commenting of a note saying it did not? Any clarification, CA?

    thank you

    Apparently it's not included in Beta it's only Cav changes, doesn't include new patch at all. So I am going to hold in with Beta for now usually I am opted in.
    Why on earth? Why would they not have the beta be patched, as that is the future environment the cavalry fix is intended for.
    Post edited by MGH1#5018 on
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 946
    Enticity confirmed on his Test Stream that the Cavalry BETA Patch does NOT include the 1.12.1 Bug Fixes.



    Dahvplays suggested CA is aware of it and may be working on merging the Bug Fixes into the Cav BETA:

    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • zburanukizburanuki Registered Users Posts: 23
    edited September 2021
    Morghur should be able to respawn and regarding the cav, shock cav should damage on impact not after. Also The fact that only the entities of the first line can charge it's more punishing for the cav now than the infantry. For me it's better to keep the charge mechanic for the cav as it was and keep the new one for the infantry, and cav should definitely damage more on impact. Or just give more hp to the cav so that they don't die fast to infantry.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 946
    zburanuki said:

    Morghur should be able to respawn and regarding the cav, shock cav should damage on impact not after. Also The fact that only the entities of the first line can charge it's more punishing for the cav now than the infantry. For me it's better to keep the charge mechanic for the cav as it was and keep the new one for the infantry, and cav should definitely damage more on impact. Or just give more hp to the cav so that they don't fast to infantry.

    Yeah you might be right, I did some testing last night and the Impact damage was pretty much non-existant in most cases, only the Charge Bonus Boosted Melee damage AFTER the impact was really noticable.

    Cav DID seem to be dying less, but the Impact damage didn't seem to really happen much for either side and Infantry with High Charge bonus still seemed to chew cav pretty hard AFTER the initial impact.

    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • HL230P45#1277HL230P45#1277 Registered Users Posts: 377
    I ran a test involving Marauders (great weapons) and Dragon princes, first charging into each other, second marauders bracing for the charge. On average marauders standing still suffer 55% health damage and deal 16% HP damage to the calalry before they break. Marauders charging into cavalry on average lose 59% of health and eat 27% of cavalry's health before breaking. Which means that counter-charging marauders with great weapons suffer 4% more casualties but inflict 11% more damage to cavalry.
    In a similar vein, Swordmasters of Hoeth lose to Kroxigors when standing still and win against them with a sizable portion of their health remaining when counter-charge. To me, nothing much has changed from the previous patch. The root of the problem, as I understand it, is not the charge, but infantry models' behavior where if they are ordered to charge they group around their targets more closely and land more hits, whereas if they stand still, they for some reason do not close up.
    All of the above would not be such a bad state of affairs (except for monstrous infantry, which is useless in these conditions) for me if the AI was properly instructed to charge when it is beneficial to it instead of waiting for impact and loosing without a kill to show for it.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 11,388
    Good to see. Clock is still ticking on fixing Nakai's campaign, though.
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