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Official Katarin concept arts.

2

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  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216
    SerPus said:

    Pardon my Russian but Что за дела? We're talking about a woman who can casually avalanches and blizzards on a bad day. Showing hair or not doesn't really need to be made into a judgement of character.

    It has nothing to do with her personal characteristics.
    Then what does it have to do with? Yes, married and noble ladies tended to, in the pre-industrial past, cover their hair as a sign of modesty and status, but social and fashion mores are never consistent, doubly so if you're someone who can freeze entire armies in place if she looks angry enough. I personally enjoy Katarin's look but having her hair flow out and about wouldn't be any kind of character assassination or design flaw. It's all just personal taste, like with about 80% of Kislev's design in general.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,274

    Then what does it have to do with?

    CA adapting some historical aspects of how people used to dress, which was affected by the standards of decency of its time. If you speak Russian then you should know the word "опростоволоситься".
    Obviously, I'm not saying that the WHFB world lives by the same rules(it doesn't), but using real visual elements from history makes the design more flavourful.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216
    SerPus said:

    Then what does it have to do with?

    CA adapting some historical aspects of how people used to dress, which was affected by the standards of decency of its time. If you speak Russian then you should know the word "опростоволоситься".
    Obviously, I'm not saying that the WHFB world lives by the same rules(it doesn't), but using real visual elements from history makes the design more flavourful.
    Ironically, you're really stretching here. There isn't much that CA is adapting in terms of IRL Russian, much less Slavic, dress; not only would there be more reds, whites, and floral designs, it wouldn't look like something out of God of War Slavic Mythology Edition, because it's *Warhammer*. Any allusions to real life cultures and designs are superficial -- just because Bretonnians have aggressively French accents and clear Arthurian influences, it's obvious that real life France, even Medieval France, was very different than what we see in Bretonnia.

    If anything, Katarin and the other Kislevite units draw more from Siberian and Turkic than just Slavic, which makes sense since in the lore, Kislev is a fusion of two different steppe nomadic cultures that more or less happened to come together at a really rough time. Further, the idea that Russian woman always covered their hair isn't really clear depending if you're talking about pre or post-Christianization. It's all genuine fun and all to speculate and draw real life connections, but Kislev at the end of the day is Kislevite, not Slavic, Turkic, Finnic, or Siberian.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,410
    I give my comment and suddenly we're talking about the intricacies of hair style for 14th-17th royal ladies.

    Katarin it the Ice Queen from Hans Christian Anderson, with intent to kill. Kislev is a land regularly beset by enemies of the worst sort. Being without some feminine finery makes plenty of sense.


    But the oversized jewelry is totaly fine

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216

    I give my comment and suddenly we're talking about the intricacies of hair style for 14th-17th royal ladies.

    Katarin it the Ice Queen from Hans Christian Anderson, with intent to kill. Kislev is a land regularly beset by enemies of the worst sort. Being without some feminine finery makes plenty of sense.


    But the oversized jewelry is totaly fine
    I mean they do glow with ice magic. They probably serve a purpose, or at least look cool since we are talking about a head of state and the most powerful ice witch in living memory.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,410

    I give my comment and suddenly we're talking about the intricacies of hair style for 14th-17th royal ladies.

    Katarin it the Ice Queen from Hans Christian Anderson, with intent to kill. Kislev is a land regularly beset by enemies of the worst sort. Being without some feminine finery makes plenty of sense.


    But the oversized jewelry is totaly fine
    I mean they do glow with ice magic. They probably serve a purpose, or at least look cool since we are talking about a head of state and the most powerful ice witch in living memory.
    Do they? Too kitsch for me. Anyways flowing hair looks cool too

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216

    I give my comment and suddenly we're talking about the intricacies of hair style for 14th-17th royal ladies.

    Katarin it the Ice Queen from Hans Christian Anderson, with intent to kill. Kislev is a land regularly beset by enemies of the worst sort. Being without some feminine finery makes plenty of sense.


    But the oversized jewelry is totaly fine
    I mean they do glow with ice magic. They probably serve a purpose, or at least look cool since we are talking about a head of state and the most powerful ice witch in living memory.
    Do they? Too kitsch for me. Anyways flowing hair looks cool too
    Like I said, this all comes down to personal taste. I don't mind it, especially since the pearls in Katarin's outfit probably speaks a lot to a nation that doesn't have easy access to the wide open sea, but I understand why people prefer the old style. I just, would greatly appreciate, people making less commentary on real life cultures and aesthetics over a character design for an RTSG.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 30,062
    Elsa looking gooood.
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  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,274

    Ironically, you're really stretching here.

    Am I?

    Any allusions to real life cultures and designs are superficial

    Where did I claim the opposite?
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216
    SerPus said:

    Ironically, you're really stretching here.

    Am I?

    Any allusions to real life cultures and designs are superficial

    Where did I claim the opposite?
    Kislev is not Warhammer Russia. Winged Hussars aren't Russian. Steppe archers aren't Russian. The Bear isn't the traditional mascot for Russia, the double-headed eagle is. It's still the main insignia on RF passports and government crests. The whole "Bear means Russia" thing mostly goes back to Victorian attitudes towards Russia over their mutual hostility. Again, you can easily argue that Kislev is as Polish, Bohemian, Chechen, or Finnic as it is Russian. Obviously there's an influence, but it's hardly the only one in play.

    Katarin, in the old lore, had flowing black hair, because she was the Tzarina, because she was the most powerful ice witch in history, because she maybe just wanted to. The writers and artists at that point didn't really care about the intricacies of Russian women hair customs, because that's not the point behind Kislev, and that's more abundantly clear now with WH3's design. I can't recall "Dervishes" or Bear Cavalry in Russian history or folklore, at least not from what my grandparents told me.

    Again, I still prefer the new look over the old. Katarin having free hair or not wouldn't make a difference to me, but people are really putting too much stock in character design.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,274

    Kislev is not Warhammer Russia

    Of course not. It's partially inspired by it.

    The whole "Bear means Russia" thing mostly goes back to Victorian attitudes towards Russia over their mutual hostility.

    The whole "bears as caricature" thing predates the Victorian Era. So in British culture it's a very old stereotype.

    Again, you can easily argue that Kislev is as Polish, Bohemian, Chechen, or Finnic as it is Russian.

    Oh, I would even argue that in the 6th edition visual design of Kislev was much more Polish-inspired than it is now. Unlike, for example, the 1st edition RPG where it was very Russian-like.

    The writers and artists at that point didn't really care about the intricacies of Russian women hair customs

    They still don't, I'm sure. They just use some visual elements to give a more unique flavor to the race.
    Anyway, what's your point?


  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,054
    Can you imagine seeing things like that DURING the Kislev reveal when we had entire weeks of weaksauce showcases?

    ------Red Dox
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,216
    SerPus said:

    Kislev is not Warhammer Russia

    Of course not. It's partially inspired by it.

    The whole "Bear means Russia" thing mostly goes back to Victorian attitudes towards Russia over their mutual hostility.

    The whole "bears as caricature" thing predates the Victorian Era. So in British culture it's a very old stereotype.

    Again, you can easily argue that Kislev is as Polish, Bohemian, Chechen, or Finnic as it is Russian.

    Oh, I would even argue that in the 6th edition visual design of Kislev was much more Polish-inspired than it is now. Unlike, for example, the 1st edition RPG where it was very Russian-like.

    The writers and artists at that point didn't really care about the intricacies of Russian women hair customs

    They still don't, I'm sure. They just use some visual elements to give a more unique flavor to the race.
    Anyway, what's your point?


    People are making too close parallels between a clearly fantastical faction to a real life culture(s) with all its complications and subjective experiences that a game isn't meant to touch on? It's great that there's a Russian-esque faction coming up. Doubly so that it's a heroic one for once, but it's not that deep. A company choosing a "Russian-coded" character to have flowing hair or not isn't significant.
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,126
    Always found it interesting the small details that people get their pants in a twist over.

    She would look great with hair.
    She looks great without hair.
    Her model is not her hair lol.

    I personally feel like CA nailed it with her design.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,274

    A company choosing a "Russian-coded" character to have flowing hair or not isn't significant.

    Of course it isn't significant. It's just the artistic choice.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,113
    I like Katarins design. She has a very distinctive and unique look compared to other warhammer characters. Truly a grimm ice queen.
    And I like that various historical inspirations were used as part of her design.
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  • duglandtotoduglandtoto Registered Users Posts: 331
    Ok great, another pictures and arts of them! I'm so excited to see what's next! Perhaps are we going to see their pyjamas? Their favourite mickey mouse and donald duck slippers? The breakfast they take everyday to become a robust and motivated Kislevite? Can't wait!!!

  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,718
    She looks awesome. Who gives a **** if you can see her hair or not lol
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,099



    So GW initially went for a more traditional /true to established lore look, but CAs take gave us her new version.

    So it seems that indeed that the concept look of units and characters is more "2 Way Street" than this forums give credit for. "GW said so, GW made so".

    Based on what are you saying that? On the fact that the beginning sketch is GW's? That doesn't say anything about their involvement beyond that. You can't quantify it past that point just from this statement.

    For instance, I can say with some degree of certainty that GW is the one who made the Orthodoxy. No way in hell are they letting CA make an entire religious order out of nothing.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • QwarHimosQwarHimos Registered Users Posts: 9

    Directly from Artstation.





















    God i wish that were me

    Cool my fourth choice has cool art
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,043
    Aesthetics: 9 : It's beautiful.

    Fidelity: 5.5 : It's a western, XIXth century inspired outfit with a touch of the 1903 ball in the Winter Palace.

    The artist went above and beyond. It's a feast for the eyes.
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,057
    She looks good, =) i need to rewatch her in game model :P
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 4,824
    Kislev is truly bewildering. You can have an absolute banger of a design like Katarin and then turn around and have the dud that is Armored Kossars.
    I believe in Slaanesh supremacy
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,718
    Maelas said:

    Kislev is truly bewildering. You can have an absolute banger of a design like Katarin and then turn around and have the dud that is Armored Kossars.

    This.
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,342
    Still curious why they changed the name of Fearfrost to Frost Fang. (Maybe we'll be getting a crossover with WH40k, and it will be revealed that Katarin is secretly a warp-displaced Ragnar Blackmane?)

    //

    On the whole covered hair conversation, GW has produced images of Kislevite Tzarinas before with the headscarf look:



    (The artist is definitely aware of that picture - she includes a bit of it as a makeup reference. Maybe it is what inspired the same for Katarin.)
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,781
    Neodeinos said:



    So GW initially went for a more traditional /true to established lore look, but CAs take gave us her new version.

    So it seems that indeed that the concept look of units and characters is more "2 Way Street" than this forums give credit for. "GW said so, GW made so".

    It seemed always obvious to me CA doesn't do exactly as GW says and has some creative freedom despite what people say.
    100% GW will have veto power on anything. Just because CA didnt stick to a napkin level sketch provided by GW, doesnt mean they have the ability to snub GW's desires...
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • YurisusukiYurisusuki Somewhere in LustriaRegistered Users Posts: 464
    I was playing Troy yesterday, and noticed that Penthesilea it's pretty similar to Katarina
    Just as planned

  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 4,509
    This girl Kameliya has made one of the best concept arts I’ve ever seen, über professional, dedicated and with attention to detail, amazing that she is just a freelancer and not working for CA/GW.

    10/10 with this amazing designer.

    As she stated in her deviantart: “Concept art is not drawing , is problem solving, kinda like a detective’s work”
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  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 4,509

    I was playing Troy yesterday, and noticed that Penthesilea it's pretty similar to Katarina

    photo please.
    *Justice and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
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    *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!

  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 3,371
    And people were concerned with Neferata's hat?
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