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If Miao Ying and Zhao Ming are brothers, why do they have different family names?

ITA_Vae_VictisITA_Vae_Victis Senior MemberItalyRegistered Users Posts: 1,811
It just occurred to me that this doesn't really make sense. Unless their names are just "titles" they gave to themselves and don't include their dynasty name at all.

Comments

  • KillertutKillertut Registered Users Posts: 459
    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.
  • ITA_Vae_VictisITA_Vae_Victis Senior Member ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 1,811
    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    1. You know what I meant, Mr. Pedantic.

    2. This makes a modicum of sense.
  • K3KevilinioK3Kevilinio Registered Users Posts: 175
    Dragon emporer likes it so.

    The next kid is called … Piao Ling.

    I think they can choose a name or daddy dragon emperor give them unique names.
  • HondlisHondlis Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,112
    Shes divorced...he was a gambler and couldn't keep a job.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,620
    Hondlis said:

    Shes divorced...he was a gambler and couldn't keep a job.

    He called Settra a misunderstood hero.
  • Lord_ZarkovLord_Zarkov Registered Users Posts: 395
    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    I think you’re right with no 2 there. Caledorian dragons have a single name with a ton of syllables but no surname. Their names are just the Cathayan equivalent.

    Plus, given the etymology of surnames, it’s not like they really need them!
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,311
    I assume their names being different is to reflect their personalities however, I am not expert on Chinese so without out hearing them spoken out loud or how they are spelt in Chinese this just a guess.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • hastur_not_y_kinghastur_not_y_king Registered Users Posts: 48

    It just occurred to me that this doesn't really make sense. Unless their names are just "titles" they gave to themselves and don't include their dynasty name at all.

    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    I think you’re right with no 2 there. Caledorian dragons have a single name with a ton of syllables but no surname. Their names are just the Cathayan equivalent.

    Plus, given the etymology of surnames, it’s not like they really need them!
    All in all correct. For names that literally mean "Wondrous (Miao) Shadow (Ying)" and "To make bright / Bright Light" (Zhao Ming), of course it does not contain last names.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,459
    I guess semi gods have a different name system than human
  • Total War Fan #2Total War Fan #2 Registered Users Posts: 1,518

    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    I think you’re right with no 2 there. Caledorian dragons have a single name with a ton of syllables but no surname. Their names are just the Cathayan equivalent.

    Plus, given the etymology of surnames, it’s not like they really need them!
    Do Elves even have surnames?

    Also by comparison, if you played ROTK, siblings do share surnames.
    For example, Sun Quan, Sun Ce, and Sun Ren/Shangxiang.
  • RyanSewellRyanSewell Registered Users Posts: 108
    If they're in the Imperial family I assume these are more honorific names rather than real ones. Miao Ying probably isn't her name, and if it is then it's likely just her assumed given name with the family name entirely omitted.
  • Total War Fan #2Total War Fan #2 Registered Users Posts: 1,518
    Also if these are style/courtesy names, they're still structured weirdly.
    Another example again from ROTK.
    Cao Cao is Mengde, but you can still formally call him Cao Mengde. Likewise Guan Yu becomes Guan Yunchang or just Yunchang.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,706
    There isn’t a family name being displayed. Their names are kinda like titles. I’m too lazy to find it but a guy on Reddit posted Chinese translations of Cathayan names, I think Miao Ying meant something like “Wondrous Shadow”, I can’t remember what Zhao Ming meant.

    It also had the names for the Chaos Gods, Slaanesh meant something like “Vile Lewdness” which I thought was perfect
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,374
    edited September 24
    Disregarding the specifities of Chinese naming conventions, we also have to keep in mind that last names aren't OBLIGATORY.

    Last names exist primarily to identify the lineage a person belongs to, so as to legitimize inheritance rights and such.

    But these are near-immortal dragons. They're not going to inherent anything anytime soon, and frankly, it's pretty obvious what lineage they belong to. You know, when they turn into dragons and all that.

    Last names are basically superfluous. EVERYONE in Cathay knows who Miao Ying is. And they've known for centuries.

    EDIT: I guess you could compare and contrast how the elves in Tolkien's works never really use last names. Elrond is simply Elrond. Everyone knows who Elrond is. He's been around for more than 5000 years.
  • Total War Fan #2Total War Fan #2 Registered Users Posts: 1,518
    For me it's just more so on how the names are written like a complete full name.
    Usually, in chinese fiction at least, characters with only first names are written without spaces like Xiaoyu, Xiangling, Yanfej, Lingshi, Chunli, Guanyin, Meiling, and so on.

    With this one, it looks they looked up what the words meant instead of thinking if it sounds like a name.
    It's like looking up german for the first time and calling your dude Rozenkrieg because you think the meaning sounds cool before thinking if it sounds weird as a german name.

    But eh whatever, it's better than GW giving them a pun name like Mai Wang at least like they did in the 80s for most factions.
  • RyanSewellRyanSewell Registered Users Posts: 108

    For me it's just more so on how the names are written like a complete full name.
    Usually, in chinese fiction at least, characters with only first names are written without spaces like Xiaoyu, Xiangling, Yanfej, Lingshi, Chunli, Guanyin, Meiling, and so on.

    With this one, it looks they looked up what the words meant instead of thinking if it sounds like a name.
    It's like looking up german for the first time and calling your dude Rozenkrieg because you think the meaning sounds cool before thinking if it sounds weird as a german name.

    But eh whatever, it's better than GW giving them a pun name like Mai Wang at least like they did in the 80s for most factions.

    Or Pu Yi which was the name of one of the Dragon Emperors in the old lore...

    But yeah it would be fine as Miaoying - they might have done it separately to help it be more legible to the mass market given Chinese (characters) doesn't use spacing anyway so there's no harm in doing so.
  • BrizthomBrizthom Registered Users Posts: 721
    They're probably the only royal Dragon family so they don't need a family name.
  • AzurianAzurian Registered Users Posts: 2,074
    Killertut said:

    1. they are siblings, not brothers. one is female, one is male.


    2. it is chinese naming so you have a first, middle and last name.
    it is quite likely that we are seeing their first and middle names and the last name is not shown and will most likely never be talked about.

    But they also have one father!
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,559
    My struggle will not be in contemplating the differences in surnames... but in pronouncing a single frigging thing from over there and ever remembering which thing is which.

    Thankfully Meow Ying is easy to remember. So at least there's that.
  • Total War Fan #2Total War Fan #2 Registered Users Posts: 1,518
    Yeah it's easier to just remember her name as Meow.
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 697
    Miao and Zhao are the last names, not sure why they are different to be honest. Their names should be based on the fathers family name.

    The way we have in three kingdoms clans:

    Yuan Shao's kids are: Yuan Tan, Yuan Shang and Yuan Xi

    Cao Cao's kids are : Cao Ang, Cao Pi, Cao Zhi, Cao zhang etc

    Liu Bei's kid: Liu Shan

    Sun Jian's kids: Sun Ce, Sun Quan, Sun Ren

    etc.. etc...
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