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If we ever see playable Memnon...

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  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 574
    RafSwi7 said:

    toskyrun said:

    however, if we have Rhesus in the north I expect Memnon to start from the deep south. why not, maybe some island near Crete, like an Egyptian / Ethiopian landing post.

    For Penny, I believe she should have a re-imagining like the recent Beastmen rework. instead of the herd stone, the main camp and then around territories of conquest and plunder. something like that...

    For Memnon, I would like to have a little map expansion to the east where Memnon would start his campaign.

    Without it, probably east of Sarpedon.
    east of Anatolia, however, would mean little possibility of expansion and immediately go against the interests of sarpendon ...
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,646
    toskyrun said:

    RafSwi7 said:

    toskyrun said:

    however, if we have Rhesus in the north I expect Memnon to start from the deep south. why not, maybe some island near Crete, like an Egyptian / Ethiopian landing post.

    For Penny, I believe she should have a re-imagining like the recent Beastmen rework. instead of the herd stone, the main camp and then around territories of conquest and plunder. something like that...

    For Memnon, I would like to have a little map expansion to the east where Memnon would start his campaign.

    Without it, probably east of Sarpedon.
    east of Anatolia, however, would mean little possibility of expansion and immediately go against the interests of sarpendon ...
    Well, if he will be horde, he won't expand in traditional way. He might end up helping Sarpedon as Lycian king is isolated from his Trojan allies from the north.

    Completed EMPIRE, ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    EMPIRE
    France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain.
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2 & 3
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    W3 - RoC: Kairos Fateweaver, Tzarina Katarin, Zhao Ming.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Memnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Rhesus, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 254
    edited September 2021
    RafSwi7 said:


    Well, if he will be horde, he won't expand in traditional way. He might end up helping Sarpedon as Lycian king is isolated from his Trojan allies from the north.

    +1
  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 574
    I really hope it's not a horde (never liked them since attila) :/
  • EighthCitizenEighthCitizen Registered Users Posts: 86
    RafSwi7 said:

    Toiox43uq said:

    I have seen chit-chat on the net, that memnon will be a type of horde owning one town only at a time ............once memnon takes another town to settle , the initial town is lost automatically to the rebel army. ...................to me this type is playable without a major disruption to the other factions.


    so Memnon will be half way from pentesilisea type to hippolyta type of game play


    Penny never lasts more than 20 turns in historical game and fairs a little better in the other forms

    I've also seen it suggested that he could operate as a horde that turns territory over to friendly factions instead of just razing it. Like since he would be a Trojan Pillar he would have the option to give territory to other Trojan pillars or potentially any ally. Maybe doing so would give him a different buff depending on which pillar you hand the territory over to. Those factions could also maybe hand over other prizes like resources or access to some of their elite unique units.
    Belisarius in The Last Roman DLC for Attila works like that. When you conquer the city you have two options - give it back to the Eastern Roman Empire or take the city and claim independence.
    I never played Attilla, but good to know there is precedent. So I could see Menmon acting similarly. Either turn the city over to a Trojan pillar or ally of his choice (though that might get a little complicated) or sack/raze it. I do like the idea of it being just Trojan pillars and Menmon or his army would get a different buff/unit/something depending on which pillar he hands the settlement over to. Like Aeneas would buff replenishment or light infantry, Hector melee defense or morale while defending, Paris a ranged boost, Sarpedon an economy buff, etc. Though unfortunately you wouldn't be able to get a buff from Penny in that manner (unless she would give you one for razing). I think as a horde or landed faction Menmon has a lot of cool potential.
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 254
    Memnon certainly needs to be added to the game along with Rhesus! The game and the community ask for them!
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,646

    RafSwi7 said:

    Toiox43uq said:

    I have seen chit-chat on the net, that memnon will be a type of horde owning one town only at a time ............once memnon takes another town to settle , the initial town is lost automatically to the rebel army. ...................to me this type is playable without a major disruption to the other factions.


    so Memnon will be half way from pentesilisea type to hippolyta type of game play


    Penny never lasts more than 20 turns in historical game and fairs a little better in the other forms

    I've also seen it suggested that he could operate as a horde that turns territory over to friendly factions instead of just razing it. Like since he would be a Trojan Pillar he would have the option to give territory to other Trojan pillars or potentially any ally. Maybe doing so would give him a different buff depending on which pillar you hand the territory over to. Those factions could also maybe hand over other prizes like resources or access to some of their elite unique units.
    Belisarius in The Last Roman DLC for Attila works like that. When you conquer the city you have two options - give it back to the Eastern Roman Empire or take the city and claim independence.
    I never played Attilla, but good to know there is precedent. So I could see Menmon acting similarly. Either turn the city over to a Trojan pillar or ally of his choice (though that might get a little complicated) or sack/raze it. I do like the idea of it being just Trojan pillars and Menmon or his army would get a different buff/unit/something depending on which pillar he hands the settlement over to. Like Aeneas would buff replenishment or light infantry, Hector melee defense or morale while defending, Paris a ranged boost, Sarpedon an economy buff, etc. Though unfortunately you wouldn't be able to get a buff from Penny in that manner (unless she would give you one for razing). I think as a horde or landed faction Menmon has a lot of cool potential.
    Yeah, Belisarius is more a military expedition than a horde. IMHO Something similar would work well for Memnon.

    Completed EMPIRE, ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    EMPIRE
    France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain.
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2 & 3
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    W3 - RoC: Kairos Fateweaver, Tzarina Katarin, Zhao Ming.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Memnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Rhesus, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 254
    RafSwi7 said:


    Yeah, Belisarius is more a military expedition than a horde. IMHO Something similar would work well for Memnon.

    I don't know these mechanics, but it seems to me to be perfect for our Ethiopian hero.
  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 574
    edited September 2021
    I don't agree. in the Belisarius campaign, proclaiming independence automatically meant war with the Eastern Empire. but there,
    the empire was distant and passive. imagine what would happen in troy, after feeding the power of one of the trojan pillars. you would be blown away. on the other hand, giving up all the territories to one faction in exchange for something is basically the nakai campaign, which according to the community is the most boring campaign of all. I hope it's not a horde, or in case it has similar mechanics to the new beastmen.
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,646
    toskyrun said:

    I don't agree. in the Belisarius campaign, proclaiming independence automatically meant war with the Eastern Empire. but there,
    the empire was distant and passive. imagine what would happen in troy, after feeding the power of one of the trojan pillars. you would be blown away. on the other hand, giving up all the territories to one faction in exchange for something is basically the nakai campaign, which according to the community is the most boring campaign of all. I hope it's not a horde, or in case it has similar mechanics to the new beastmen.

    Obviously there would be no situation where Memnon would go to war with Troy if he had not given them cities.

    Maybe, you would just have a choice to do it for bonuses or settle down to play as normal faction.

    Completed EMPIRE, ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    EMPIRE
    France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain.
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2 & 3
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    W3 - RoC: Kairos Fateweaver, Tzarina Katarin, Zhao Ming.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Memnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Rhesus, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • ChicoperarioChicoperario Registered Users Posts: 261
    Maybe when you give enough territories to each trojan pillars, you gain some permanent bonuses, like access to elite units from that faction and a character trait similar to "defeated sarpedon" (but a "friendly" trait). This way, you build up strengh for the trojan pillars and your own at the same time. This would also play out with the multinational aspect of Memnon's army (soldiers from ethiopia, egypt and india).

    I Hope it's a horde faction, I think they are really fun :)
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited September 2021
    toskyrun said:

    I don't agree. in the Belisarius campaign, proclaiming independence automatically meant war with the Eastern Empire. but there,
    the empire was distant and passive. imagine what would happen in troy, after feeding the power of one of the trojan pillars. you would be blown away. on the other hand, giving up all the territories to one faction in exchange for something is basically the nakai campaign, which according to the community is the most boring campaign of all. I hope it's not a horde, or in case it has similar mechanics to the new beastmen.

    That's because the vassal Nakai is saddled with is almost nothing but a total liability that can't even properly defend itself and because your vassal is so weak, everyone and his mother (and any close allies YOU might have) will declare war on them.

    Nakai is just an example of CA not thinking an idea through to the end. One simple fix would be that no one can declare war on the vassal directly but only on Nakai. Would take away the #1 headache in his campaign.
  • DruidsbrookDruidsbrook Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 296
    I really hope they would not put potentially one of the most unique army rosters in the game behind a permanent horde.

    Memnon could start as a horde or expedition which then gives you a choice of where you want to start building your empire. Maybe he gets a campaign movement increase while he has no settlements so you have lots of viable options for your starting position. You could go near your Trojan allies or you could reach out to somewhere like Crete.
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,646

    I really hope they would not put potentially one of the most unique army rosters in the game behind a permanent horde.

    Memnon could start as a horde or expedition which then gives you a choice of where you want to start building your empire. Maybe he gets a campaign movement increase while he has no settlements so you have lots of viable options for your starting position. You could go near your Trojan allies or you could reach out to somewhere like Crete.

    They can always make him being semi-horde like Beastmen in WH2 after rework.

    Completed EMPIRE, ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    EMPIRE
    France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain.
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2 & 3
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    W3 - RoC: Kairos Fateweaver, Tzarina Katarin, Zhao Ming.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Memnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Rhesus, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • toskyruntoskyrun Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 574

    I really hope they would not put potentially one of the most unique army rosters in the game behind a permanent horde.

    Memnon could start as a horde or expedition which then gives you a choice of where you want to start building your empire. Maybe he gets a campaign movement increase while he has no settlements so you have lots of viable options for your starting position. You could go near your Trojan allies or you could reach out to somewhere like Crete.

    like gothic hordes of attila. I like this solution
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 254
    edited September 2021
    RafSwi7 said:


    They can always make him being semi-horde like Beastmen in WH2 after rework.

    toskyrun said:


    like gothic hordes of attila. I like this solution

    +1
  • DruidsbrookDruidsbrook Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 296
    toskyrun said:

    I really hope they would not put potentially one of the most unique army rosters in the game behind a permanent horde.

    Memnon could start as a horde or expedition which then gives you a choice of where you want to start building your empire. Maybe he gets a campaign movement increase while he has no settlements so you have lots of viable options for your starting position. You could go near your Trojan allies or you could reach out to somewhere like Crete.

    like gothic hordes of attila. I like this solution
    Yes Goths are a good example its a great campaign that transitions from marauding around to kingdom building. Plus the player has some wiggle room to make the horde stage last longer to have a better position (or just to roleplay)

    The key thing is you're not forced into remaining a horde.
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 254


    Yes Goths are a good example its a great campaign that transitions from marauding around to kingdom building. Plus the player has some wiggle room to make the horde stage last longer to have a better position (or just to roleplay)

    The key thing is you're not forced into remaining a horde.

    Nice. I hope that this is how Memnon is done!
  • RexCapripesRexCapripes Registered Users Posts: 25
    Something important for folk to remember is that Ethiopia is a very broad geographic term. Generally it could refer anywhere from far-away India to anywhere south of Egypt, including Nubia. In my opinion, though, making him distinctly Nubian in some regard would be the best course of action. A lot of ancient authors rationalized Memnon as hailing from southern Egypt, and I feel making him some sort of very Egyptianized Nubian would fit best. It would also give us the chance for an Egyptian-adjacent civilization to enter the game, and allow Mythos to include Egyptian deities.
  • Toiox43uqToiox43uq Registered Users Posts: 139

    Something important for folk to remember is that Ethiopia is a very broad geographic term. Generally it could refer anywhere from far-away India to anywhere south of Egypt, including Nubia. In my opinion, though, making him distinctly Nubian in some regard would be the best course of action. A lot of ancient authors rationalized Memnon as hailing from southern Egypt, and I feel making him some sort of very Egyptianized Nubian would fit best. It would also give us the chance for an Egyptian-adjacent civilization to enter the game, and allow Mythos to include Egyptian deities.

    Memnon was a Assyrian ( syria ) are dark skinned person ...........check other posts here about adding memnon to the game

    he is not ethiopion

    Diodorus Siculus 2.22.1-5:
    For the only event which has been recorded is the despatch by the Assyrians to the Trojans of an allied force, which was under the command of Memnon the son of Tithonos. For when Teutamos, they say, was ruler of Asia, being the twentieth in succession from Ninyas the son of Semiramis, the Greeks made an expedition against Troy with Agamemnon, at a time when the Assyrians had controlled Asia for more than a thousand years.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Toiox43uq said:

    Something important for folk to remember is that Ethiopia is a very broad geographic term. Generally it could refer anywhere from far-away India to anywhere south of Egypt, including Nubia. In my opinion, though, making him distinctly Nubian in some regard would be the best course of action. A lot of ancient authors rationalized Memnon as hailing from southern Egypt, and I feel making him some sort of very Egyptianized Nubian would fit best. It would also give us the chance for an Egyptian-adjacent civilization to enter the game, and allow Mythos to include Egyptian deities.

    Memnon was a Assyrian ( syria ) are dark skinned person ...........check other posts here about adding memnon to the game

    he is not ethiopion

    Diodorus Siculus 2.22.1-5:
    For the only event which has been recorded is the despatch by the Assyrians to the Trojans of an allied force, which was under the command of Memnon the son of Tithonos. For when Teutamos, they say, was ruler of Asia, being the twentieth in succession from Ninyas the son of Semiramis, the Greeks made an expedition against Troy with Agamemnon, at a time when the Assyrians had controlled Asia for more than a thousand years.
    In ancient times, "Ethiopia" meant the land south of the Egypt, on the upper Nile. Assyria and Ethiopia were not exchangeable terms.


  • Toiox43uqToiox43uq Registered Users Posts: 139

    Toiox43uq said:

    Something important for folk to remember is that Ethiopia is a very broad geographic term. Generally it could refer anywhere from far-away India to anywhere south of Egypt, including Nubia. In my opinion, though, making him distinctly Nubian in some regard would be the best course of action. A lot of ancient authors rationalized Memnon as hailing from southern Egypt, and I feel making him some sort of very Egyptianized Nubian would fit best. It would also give us the chance for an Egyptian-adjacent civilization to enter the game, and allow Mythos to include Egyptian deities.

    Memnon was a Assyrian ( syria ) are dark skinned person ...........check other posts here about adding memnon to the game

    he is not ethiopion

    Diodorus Siculus 2.22.1-5:
    For the only event which has been recorded is the despatch by the Assyrians to the Trojans of an allied force, which was under the command of Memnon the son of Tithonos. For when Teutamos, they say, was ruler of Asia, being the twentieth in succession from Ninyas the son of Semiramis, the Greeks made an expedition against Troy with Agamemnon, at a time when the Assyrians had controlled Asia for more than a thousand years.
    In ancient times, "Ethiopia" meant the land south of the Egypt, on the upper Nile. Assyria and Ethiopia were not exchangeable terms.



    Memnon is a Aethiopion ( wrongly written as ethiopian by later Greek historian , namely hesiod. ).
  • Toiox43uqToiox43uq Registered Users Posts: 139
    Prof. F. Heichelheim has recently attempted to fix the composition
    date of either the Aethiopis or the Little lliad to 663-656 B. C. l ). Ctesias'
    story of the Assyrian king Teutamus sending the Aethiopian Memnon to
    assist Priam, an Assyrian vassal 2), could have originated, his argument runs,
    only at a time when Assyria actually did control Aethiopia and the Troad.
    And such a time was 663-656 B.C.;
    But there is every reason to believe that the Memnon of the Aethiopis
    was an Asiatic Aethiopian, not an African 3).
  • ChicoperarioChicoperario Registered Users Posts: 261


    BLAM, check and mate!

    K/d. Your source is as accurate as mine, given that Memnon didn't actually exist. I don't know why you're so passionate about asserting Memnon assyrian origin over multiple threads. That will hardly be the art direction CA takes for Memnon in a potential dlc; they already stated in a interview that they noticed the fans positive reaction to the egyptian gods in the "walls" of the campaign map, it would be wise to capitalize on that.

    Also, in Troy TW they went with the interpretation that the Illiad took place in the 1100's BC, which is the greek/anatolian bronze age, and not in the 600's like Heicheleim describes, which would be more into the classical age of greek history; we would have to have breast plates and phalanxes instead of dendra-style armor and weapons. Also the Mycenan culture was over by then.
  • Toiox43uqToiox43uq Registered Users Posts: 139



    BLAM, check and mate!

    K/d. Your source is as accurate as mine, given that Memnon didn't actually exist. I don't know why you're so passionate about asserting Memnon assyrian origin over multiple threads. That will hardly be the art direction CA takes for Memnon in a potential dlc; they already stated in a interview that they noticed the fans positive reaction to the egyptian gods in the "walls" of the campaign map, it would be wise to capitalize on that.

    Also, in Troy TW they went with the interpretation that the Illiad took place in the 1100's BC, which is the greek/anatolian bronze age, and not in the 600's like Heicheleim describes, which would be more into the classical age of greek history; we would have to have breast plates and phalanxes instead of dendra-style armor and weapons. Also the Mycenan culture was over by then.

    I already stated in earlier threads that Aethiopia was anywhere from Morocco to Cyrene ( east libya ) as per Greek historians , but modern scholars state that a memnon existed in Assyria ( syria )..............but either way, make memnon, assyria of african is still a major issue to place him in the game unless the modders change the map, something I think they will never do .......................so in the end will Memnon exist as some type of invading Horde army which takes and keeps territory or will he never exist in the game
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