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Total war america's (or saga)

carphuntercarphunter Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 16
With factions like:

Aztec
Maya
Inca

Different tribes of native americans

Portugal
Spain
France
England

For me this would be a great saga title

Comments

  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    @carphunter

    Seriously?

    The presentation of native americans in computer games, books, movies etc is extremely sensitive issue,

    You can check Age of Empires 3 remaster

    Many of these "political correct" people would be super angry, that this game is disrespectful
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    It’s really hard to pull off a game about genocide these days, and I’m okay with that. I’d rather CA didn’t try.
    ò_ó
  • carphuntercarphunter Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 16
    Everything is hard to pull off in the world we live in today. There is always somebody hurt in one way or another. I am offended by the Roman Empire because they had slaves that could be my relatives.... If we are going on that road they could stop making historical titels.
  • Nortrix87Nortrix87 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,000
    To be a victim is today a way to get attention and in some ways even power. Look at me, feel sry for me pls. I have suffered soooooo much. My great grandfather was shoot by yours. Baby tears. :'(
    Give me your house perhaps? :D
    "We men are the monsters now. The time of heroes is dead, Wiglaf - the Christ God has killed it, leaving humankind with nothing but weeping martyrs, fear, and shame."

    - Beowulf
  • arthadawarthadaw Registered Users Posts: 1,096
    It can be done, but they would necessitate the support of expert of the cultures for a proper and respectful portrayal
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,980
    Bit of a lacking period, most of that will be just the Spanish conquest if focusing on the Americas with the rest not being in the game for a very long time/doing nothing really. They were active in different areas which overall I think would make it rather bland as it's own game.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906

    Everything is hard to pull off in the world we live in today. There is always somebody hurt in one way or another. I am offended by the Roman Empire because they had slaves that could be my relatives.... If we are going on that road they could stop making historical titels.

    No, lots of things are very easy to pull off today, hence we are flooded with new entertainment media. The “conquest” of the Americas did involve actual genocide, and that is a rough topic to cover in a game in the 2020s. More importantly, given the kind of company CA is now, I don’t think they be interested in making a game about the period again. I could be wrong, but that’s my intuition.
    ò_ó
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    Warlocke said:


    The “conquest” of the Americas did involve actual genocide

    Genocide? Was it more about pandemic?

    I mean Spanish did not do, what Mongols or Arabs did to subjugated nations/civilisations

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    Lotor12 said:

    Warlocke said:


    The “conquest” of the Americas did involve actual genocide

    Genocide? Was it more about pandemic?

    I mean Spanish did not do, what Mongols or Arabs did to subjugated nations/civilisations

    I’m not talking about just the initial contact. Destruction of a written language and all texts, removing children from families, forced labor, all of these are considered acts of genocide. Of course, all war have atrocities. Difference is our world is still dealing with the repercussions of colonialism in a way that we are no longer dealing with the sack of Carthage or invasion of Dacia.
    ò_ó
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    Warlocke said:

    Difference is our world is still dealing with the repercussions of colonialism in a way that we are no longer dealing with the sack of Carthage or invasion of Dacia.

    But why Your world is still dealing with it?

    That is what I do not understand
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    Lotor12 said:

    Warlocke said:

    Difference is our world is still dealing with the repercussions of colonialism in a way that we are no longer dealing with the sack of Carthage or invasion of Dacia.

    But why Your world is still dealing with it?

    That is what I do not understand
    What do you mean my world?
    ò_ó
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,980
    I wouldn't be shocked to see it covered again one day but would expect it to be part of an over arching game covering the 1500-1600 with more options by having the old world as well.
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    @Warlocke

    From what You said, I guess, that You are from country, which has "colonial trauma"

    In "our world" we could blame many for "genocide", cultural or economical oppression, taking our land etc, but it is consider as closed chapter, we can not change the history, or collectively blame some group for something, what happened centuries ago
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    I’m not sure what you are referring to with quotation marks “colonial trauma,” but the colonial expansion of the European powers still has very real world geopolitical consequences today. European colonialism only ended after WW2. If there are lingering repercussions then it isn’t a closed chapter of history.

    But nobody said anything about blame. Some of my ancestors were Portuguese conquistadors and that doesn’t bother me at all. That just sounds like you projecting your own insecurities onto me.
    ò_ó
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    edited September 25
    Warlocke said:

    ...but the colonial expansion of the European powers still has very real world geopolitical consequences today. European colonialism only ended after WW2. If there are lingering repercussions then it isn’t a closed chapter of history.

    And what are these consequences?
    Change a language and religion,

    Same thing, what happened in other part of world - Egypt, Syria and other middle east countries speak Arabic, Zoroastrian religion was replaced by Islam in Iran (Persia), You mentioned Portuguese - their ancestors were conquered by Romans, and that why is Portuguese speak Latin language, not "native Iberian"

    all these countries, which were European "colonies" are responsible for themselves now...
  • IoriYamadaIoriYamada WalesRegistered Users Posts: 792
    Just in case you didn't know that looks very similar to the M2 DLC, it was a lot of fun if I remember correctly.

    Do people really think colonialism has ended? Do the major powers not have bases around the world? We are all more tactful but it still goes on.

    In reference to the game, I think we will be fine if CA did this, Paradox is about to release a game in the Victorian era.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    Lotor12 said:

    Warlocke said:

    ...but the colonial expansion of the European powers still has very real world geopolitical consequences today. European colonialism only ended after WW2. If there are lingering repercussions then it isn’t a closed chapter of history.

    And what are these consequences?
    Change a language and religion,

    Same thing, what happened in other part of world - Egypt, Syria and other middle east countries speak Arabic, Zoroastrian religion was replaced by Islam in Iran (Persia), You mentioned Portuguese - their ancestors were conquered by Romans, and that why is Portuguese speak Latin language, not "native Iberian"

    all these countries, which were European "colonies" are responsible for themselves now...
    … have you ever noticed how a lot of areas of the world that are former European colonies are quite impoverished and politically unstable? The reason the Age of Exploration happened was because European monarchs wanted luxury goods they did not have local access too. In the Middle Ages, Europe was a bit of a dump. Africa had gold and Ivory. The Middle East had Lapis Lazuli. India had gemstones and spices. China had jade and silk. Central America, then unknown to Europe, was also quite wealthy in gold. Europe had wool, iron, and timber. Good quality resources, but none of the luxury products found in other continents.

    So this poverty and a desire to cut out Arab Silk Road traders pushed Europe to explore, but instead of just trading, they decided to take instead. Colonies were set up all over the world to extract resources and deprive wealth from the local populace. Boarders were drawn up across the map arbitrarily and different groups of people were intentionally set against each other, especially in the Middle East and Africa. Large numbers of people were enslaved and forced into backbreaking servitude, and racist philosophies were created to justify this inhumanity.

    After sometimes hundreds of years of rule, the European colonizers left many of the holdings, one way or another. The racist institutions they set up remained. The tribal divisions and arbitrary boarders try set up continued to elicit animosity and sometimes violence. The wealth they extracted remained taken.

    So there is a very brief history of colonial effects. If you are really interested in learning more then there are countless books you can read to learn more. But I don’t think you are really interested. I think you are arguing under bad faith and are motivated by an unfortunate political viewpoint and an insecurity that engenders you in seeing personal accusations at mere mention of European colonial abuse. So if you respond, and you do so again in bad faith, just be aware I’m not particularly interested in spending a lot of time explaining the origin of the contemporary world system to you on a video game message board.
    ò_ó
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 674
    @Warlocke

    Some areas are good (Singapure), some bad (Angola), and for example former colonial countries Spain and Portugal are below average EU economical standard now..

    The point is, that these former colonies are independent too long, africa for 60 years, and especially latin america for 200 years, these countries are simple responsible for themself.
    but I understand, it is just easier to blame somebody else for own problems

    Do You think, the history in other parts of world was about "fair deals" and justice for defeated?

    We mentioned Portugesse, what do You think, why they speak Latin language, and not "native Iberian"? What happened to their ancestors?

    Were the non-European rulers more fairly? Like Aztecs, who terrorized their neighbors, Ottoman sultans, Arabian caliphs, or Mongol and Tatar Khans

    @Warlocke How is Your world dealing with tatar raids?

    For over three centuries, the military of the Crimean Khanate and the Nogai Horde conducted slave raids primarily in lands controlled by Russia and Poland-Lithuania as well as other territories.

    Their main purpose was the capture of slaves, most of whom were exported to the Ottoman slave markets in Constantinople or elsewhere in the Middle East.
    The first major raid occurred in 1468 and was directed into the south-eastern border of Poland. The last raid into Hungary took place in 1717. In 1769 a last major Tatar raid, which took place during the Russo-Turkish War.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean–Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,906
    edited October 13
    Again, what is this “your world” business? What does that mean?

    There is only one world. I was born in the UK and lived most of my life in the US.
    ò_ó
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,378

    With factions like:

    Aztec
    Maya
    Inca

    Different tribes of native americans

    Portugal
    Spain
    France
    England

    For me this would be a great saga title

    This is pretty much covered in the Medieval II - TW Americas campaign.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • carphuntercarphunter Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 16
    dge1 said:

    With factions like:

    Aztec
    Maya
    Inca

    Different tribes of native americans

    Portugal
    Spain
    France
    England

    For me this would be a great saga title

    This is pretty much covered in the Medieval II - TW Americas campaign.
    Yeah Rome 2 was also covered with Rome 1😂
    With new graphics and deeper politics it could be a fresh new game.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,897
    I find it always amazing when people imaging games not happening because imaging outrage.

    Its a bit like when people claim TW WW 2 couldn't happen because imaging outrage, despite the obvious thing that there are plenty of games with WW2.

    Anyway, as dge1 said, M2 Kingdoms addon "americas" does exactly this, thou it is of course pretty old(and hilariously unbalance, hello Apachean tribes).

    When CA does M3 or maybe a Pike and Shot TW, a game like this could its off spring.
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