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So there is not enough magic in the world to sustain the Dwarf's Gronti Duraz

2

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  • KillertutKillertut Registered Users Posts: 460
    does every single race need sem? no. keep sem out of the dwarfen roster (except gyro bomber and maybe that bigger airship everybody wants)
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,087
    edited September 25

    Crossil said:

    Uagrim said:

    Novel contradicting army books and even other novels is a thing with GW/BL mostly caused by the issue of multiple writers. The siege of terra has quiet some infamy in that regard. But that doesn't change the lore relevance of the novels.

    And as I said, it depends on the actual novel.
    Uagrim said:

    Also not being mentioned in an armybook doesn't mean they don't exist or can't be implemented into the game. Else people like you should have been up in arms when they introduced Royal Hippogryph Knights at the latest (because those weren't in the armybook). But GW's canon policy regarding black library is pretty much everything is canon and they make no differentiation between rulebook lore and lore from novels.

    Royal Hippogryph Knights are mentioned in the Core Rulebook of 8th edition. And the reasoning behind making them is simple. Because they had models, both the mounts and the riders.

    Similar to Great Stag Riders, both the mounts and the riders existed in model and there was a mention in Storm of Magic, a TT supplement, with a literal entry for the Great Stags mentioning such formations.

    So no, novels are not a source. There has yet to be a unit derived purely from the novels, as far as I know.

    As for GW's statement "everything said is canon, not everything said is TRUE." So the rune golems might as well not actually exist.

    There are two types of golems shiro, Rune Golems and Rune Guardians

    Rune golems AKA Gronti Duraz


    Fanmade

    And Rune Guardians

    These being RPG only. Aka, another form of questionable canon, and the problem being that CA has not lifted a single unit that was RPG only.
    just because they didnt have models it doesnt mean they arnt cannon, especially if they are present in the War of Vengence, one of the most important bits of lore for 2 old established races
    Models, artwork, or even a mention outside of the novels, even in the historical records of those races.

    Goes to show how relevant they were.

    To be fair, I'm not gonna go, "100% not canon or a thing" but definitely not something we can reasonably expect as GW actively intending to exist, rather than a writer having a larp with dwarfen golems from other settings.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • littlenukelittlenuke Registered Users Posts: 809
    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Karaz-A-Karak discord: https://discord.gg/UZV6F5N

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,766
    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • littlenukelittlenuke Registered Users Posts: 809
    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...
    Karaz-A-Karak discord: https://discord.gg/UZV6F5N

  • EthorinEthorin Registered Users Posts: 574

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    ummm... no, that is actually nothing. You could replace rune golems with "insert Y cool rune thing" and it still works. The important part there is NOT "Rune Golems" it's "A Reason for a bunch of Rune Masters to get together".
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,087
    edited September 25

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • HighPriest_AstragothHighPriest_Astragoth Registered Users Posts: 545
    Accept the Dawi’s True Lord and Savior Hashut into your hearts, and magic a plenty will flow to animate all statues to your hearts content.


    Bants aside, yeah I gotta agree, I’m not surprised with the way Cathay is being presented, but them getting Rune Golems and mini Thunderbarges before the Dawi, well that definitely deserves to go into the book of grudges.
    Hear the summons of Hashut!
    The Dark Father calls you to slaughter,
    Blood and fire exhorts you to war!
    Hear the summons of Hashut!
    Stretch your limbs of blood-filed steel,
    The Dawi-Zharr march fourth once more!
    Answering the summons of Hashut!

    -From the K'daai rituals of awakening.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,766
    Crossil said:


    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.

    I'm going to choose to believe otherwise, or else my already very high salt levels may get lethal.
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • littlenukelittlenuke Registered Users Posts: 809
    Crossil said:

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Promethean#fn_1a

    Oh yes so much lore here. Its described as 30 feet across....

    Obviously shrinking their size by like 90% and putting a shotgun zombie on top is absolute lore sacrilege.
    Karaz-A-Karak discord: https://discord.gg/UZV6F5N

  • DavidtheDukeDavidtheDuke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,486
    The flying islands I'd think would require even more energy than golems, and yet, there they are. I don't mind these types of things as long as they're more exceptions than the rule
    5900x @ stock , 4x8gb 3600mhz 14-16-16-36
    EVGA GTX1080ti FTW3 11GB
    4TB NVMe SSD PCIe 4.0 w/ Windows 10 Pro 64bit
  • NinaranNinaran Registered Users Posts: 422
    Crossil said:

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.
    Why the hell would the novels, officially endorsed by Games Workshop, and sold on the same shop as the overpriced plastic is, not be canon?
    As long as GW doesn't officially come out and say novels aren't canon (like Star Wars expanded universe), all of it is canon.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 6,766
    Ninaran said:


    Why the hell would the novels, officially endorsed by Games Workshop, and sold on the same shop as the overpriced plastic is, not be canon?
    As long as GW doesn't officially come out and say novels aren't canon (like Star Wars expanded universe), all of it is canon.

    The idiotic official stance of GW is.

    "Its all canon, and none of it is."
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • NinaranNinaran Registered Users Posts: 422
    Crossil said:

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.
    Why the **** would novels, officially published and endorsed by Games Workshop, not be canon?
    All the black library books are canon until specifically stated otherwise by GW directly.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,990
    I doubt it matters anymore. Empire also has 8 tanks or something in the lore, yet here we are


  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,758
    While i don't care as to what the reasons op gives to make such a unit playable.

    I do believe its something dwarfs should get. For thematic reasons
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,155

    I believe that it's just too powerfull a rune, and forging another would cause one of them to explode catastrophically if I remember correctly


    From the warhammer wiki

    Azamar, the Rune of Eternity struck into the Throne of Power, was the work of Grungni himself. The Rune of Eternity was so powerful only one of its kind had ever been wrought, and it could never be duplicated. Bound within that single rune was all the craftsmanship, all the tenacity and all the iron will of the greatest of the Ancestor Gods of the dwarfs. As the legends tell it, when Grungni was done with his creation, he stepped back to assess his work. He was a harsh and exacting judge, always demanding perfection, and never finding it. In Azamar, however, Grungni was wholly satisfied. Still, being thrifty in praise, Grungni made only this promise; so long as the Rune of Azamar endures, the Karaz Ankor shall never fall.[2a]

    from the lexicanum

    The throne is inscribed with the great rune Azamar, the unique rune of eternity - a rune so potent that only one of it can ever exist.
    That doesn't contradict what I said. The reason it is too powerful to be duplicated is there is not enough magic to sustain more than 1.

    If runes were self-sustaining once made duplicating that rune wouldn't have been an issue with the right knowhow.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,087

    Crossil said:

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Promethean#fn_1a

    Oh yes so much lore here. Its described as 30 feet across....

    Obviously shrinking their size by like 90% and putting a shotgun zombie on top is absolute lore sacrilege.
    What exactly are you even trying to prove? That there are prometheans of smaller size that didn't exist? Might as well be children for all care. I think you're quite literally missing my point, and consistently so.

    Novel don't matter in the grand scope of things. GW has chosen to ignore them something like 90% of the times. It doesn't matter that they depict some historical period of the setting. In the end, the Rune Golems might as well not exist.
    Ninaran said:

    Crossil said:

    I wonder how much artwork and models Rotting Promethian Gunnary Mobs had...

    Aye, Prometheans, who were monsters featured in Man'o'War, and Vampire Coast Zombies, who were part of an actual army list. At least the former had an artwork and a model(if I understood it right), and the latter stats, models if conversions and were part of the list. At least.

    The logic doesn't change.

    Novel =/= canon.

    They are literally in the war of vengence trilogy. Like... that's not some random novella or something. They were plot point for the sparking of the war between the elves and dwarfs. That's not nothing....


    Ranuld silverthumb called a meeting of runelords as he was concerned with the disappearance of old magic, and to attempt to combine forces to awaken the Gronti Duraz. While answering the summon the ancient runelord of Barak Var is killed by the elfs, which is a major plot point.
    Apparently, that's not the case in armybook canon, where the "cause of war between the elves and dwarfs" is Malekith's interference and eventual inability to work out some arrangement. Nothing more. If they were so relevant, then you would think that they would get a mention SOMEWHERE other than the novel.
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Runes vs direct magic.

    Also, rune golems are not really something from the mainstay lore. They're, what, novels only?

    But terracotta sentinels are?
    Magical in nature. And more specifically, probably powered and maintained by powerful wizards.

    The rune golems are apparently reliant on rune magic and some very specific form of magic that has been lost with the passing of the Great Catastrophy. Combined with the fact that knowledge of runes has decayed, and runes rely on magic to be powered, the specific configuration by which these rune golems are powered has been lost and/or made inaccessible.

    It makes me wonder if these Golems could be powered up during a Storm of Magic.
    I was only responding to golems not being mainstay lore.
    Well, **** I don't know about you, but GW making them within the context of making Cathay into a fully fledged race kinda makes it mainstay of the setting, now doesn't it? The Rune Golems having one mention in a novel and nowhere else kinda makes them quetionable in relevance.
    Bruh.

    Cathay at all is 'questionable in relevance' in that case. Nothing is off the table now that we have had this foisted on us.
    Hardly hoisted on us when the entire thing is a cash grab. You're gonna pretend that this means anything can happen? Go ahead, but I will make my bets, Cathay means nothing for anyone else.

    And as I said, them making something new doesn't matter in the grand scope of things that are simply not utilized at all by GW and CA. And Cathay ignore some minor lore mentions that it had in the past goes to show that. Novels and RPG are not used as sources for units. As such, the Golems and Guardians might as well not exist.
    Why the hell would the novels, officially endorsed by Games Workshop, and sold on the same shop as the overpriced plastic is, not be canon?
    As long as GW doesn't officially come out and say novels aren't canon (like Star Wars expanded universe), all of it is canon.
    Oh, ****, they don't matter. Doesn't matter that it's written under their label, they straight up ignore them when it suits them. If they don't already contradict what lore there is to begin with, which is quite consistently so.

    Just don't act like it's GW making canonical stories every time a novel is written. Or to be exact "It's all canon, but not necessarily true." So even if it is written, it might as well not be true.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • damon40000damon40000 Registered Users Posts: 1,038
    edited September 26
    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems
    Post edited by damon40000 on
    BsFG dwarf
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,581
    Moneris said:

    Different magic maybe? I think Dwarfs use Earthbound magic to activate the Golems.

    I am not sure what Nehekara and Cathay use to animate statues. But I am sure with a bit of tweaking the Dwarfs could activate them again.

    Tomb Kings utilize the magic collected from the moment of death (both the excess shed by departing souls (like Dark Eldar harvest), as well as the wind of death which it attracts); and also souls themselves as power. Most constructs are actually piloted by a bound soul (or several).

    Basically Tomb King constructs operate the same way Eldar wraiths operate.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,990

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,085

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    Imho Monstrous Arcanum beats any novel every time (due to being part of the primary medium: WHFB) but that's down to individual preference.
    Anyway, both rune golem and shard dragon might mess with dwarf faction identity too much.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,899

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    They got a carnosaur now.
  • littlenukelittlenuke Registered Users Posts: 809
    Oh no... the Gronti Duraz were only mentioned in novels, they are too irrelevant to matter

    *looks at yoked carnosaur*
    Karaz-A-Karak discord: https://discord.gg/UZV6F5N

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,581
    Uagrim said:

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    They got a carnosaur now.
    Bro. Why you gotta make me sad today? :(
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,990
    Uagrim said:

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    They got a carnosaur now.
    Just one, hard to get, limited to one lord in campaign. Doubt anybody would mind that.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,101

    Uagrim said:

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    They got a carnosaur now.
    Just one, hard to get, limited to one lord in campaign. Doubt anybody would mind that.
    You know yoked carnosaurs are the entry drug to yoked shard dragons, right?

    And yeah I remember several complains when it was announced. (You get a carnosaur, LM. You get a carnosaur Rakarth. You get a carnosaur, dwarfs. Etc pp.)
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,085
    sykall said:

    Uagrim said:

    well there is something in lore for dawi and its called shard dragon, so either this or rune golems

    Shard thing is not really in the lore other than being listed in a supplement for financial reasons. It contradicts the faction even. But sure you can let chaos dwarfs or even norse dwarfs toy with it.
    They got a carnosaur now.
    Just one, hard to get, limited to one lord in campaign. Doubt anybody would mind that.
    You know yoked carnosaurs are the entry drug to yoked shard dragons, right?

    And yeah I remember several complains when it was announced. (You get a carnosaur, LM. You get a carnosaur Rakarth. You get a carnosaur, dwarfs. Etc pp.)
    Seriously, the yoked Carnosaur is almost the only "feral" Carnosaur I can get behid, not for the Dawi though. Luckily it's only 1 and limited to one faction, mitigating its impact.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Registered Users Posts: 880

    Yet cathay gets giant magical ninja statues because......

    There is the thing with Rune Golems. Back in the past when Thungni, Ancestor God of Runesmiths, Runecraft and Rune Magic (also betting that it was him who came up with the runic collars for Shard Dragons because why not?), forged the very first Rune Golem personally and taught the Dawi the art to create and animate more of them, the Rune Golems utilized a specific kind of magic that Runelords could harness from the very depths of the cold dark earth.
    Yet due to the Vortex in Ulthuan sucking up most of the magic from the world, the unique magic that the Runelords harnessed from the depths sunk deeper with each passing year to the point that even before the War of Vengeance began and Dawi and Asur started to beat up each other hard and brutally, it was already pretty much impossible to wake up those rock giants. They were at this point covered in layers of dust and the last Runelord that could awaken one turned into a rock statue ala Dawi-Zharr style when he overextended himself.

    If they do somehow add them (and I want them along with Rune Guardians and Shard Dragons), then there must be done some crazy to make it work. Rune Guardians and Shard Dragons are very easy to add in to the game (the former is that all the Dwarfs need is to get JUST ONE intact and reverse-engineer both the Rune of Waking and the complex mechanisms, while the latter is already a part of the Throngs due to the Dwarfs still being capable of manufacturing runic collars for the murder ferrets)...but Rune Golems without the unique magic to animate them? Unless the Runesmiths actually create something that would allow them to harness back the magic they lost and siphon it out from the depths to animate the Gronti Duraz yet again.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Registered Users Posts: 880
    Crossil said:

    Uagrim said:

    Novel contradicting army books and even other novels is a thing with GW/BL mostly caused by the issue of multiple writers. The siege of terra has quiet some infamy in that regard. But that doesn't change the lore relevance of the novels.

    And as I said, it depends on the actual novel.
    Uagrim said:

    Also not being mentioned in an armybook doesn't mean they don't exist or can't be implemented into the game. Else people like you should have been up in arms when they introduced Royal Hippogryph Knights at the latest (because those weren't in the armybook). But GW's canon policy regarding black library is pretty much everything is canon and they make no differentiation between rulebook lore and lore from novels.

    Royal Hippogryph Knights are mentioned in the Core Rulebook of 8th edition. And the reasoning behind making them is simple. Because they had models, both the mounts and the riders.

    Similar to Great Stag Riders, both the mounts and the riders existed in model and there was a mention in Storm of Magic, a TT supplement, with a literal entry for the Great Stags mentioning such formations.

    So no, novels are not a source. There has yet to be a unit derived purely from the novels, as far as I know.

    As for GW's statement "everything said is canon, not everything said is TRUE." So the rune golems might as well not actually exist.

    There are two types of golems shiro, Rune Golems and Rune Guardians

    Rune golems AKA Gronti Duraz


    Fanmade

    And Rune Guardians

    These being RPG only. Aka, another form of questionable canon, and the problem being that CA has not lifted a single unit that was RPG only.
    Yeah no. The RPGs are canon just by having GW overseeing their creation. The only things that are not canon anymore are any mentions about the Storm of Chaos event in the RPGs and one of Todbringer's sons becoming Emperor after Boris and Franz die and him also marrying Emmanuelle von Leibniz.
    That and CA also used the RPGs (most notably 2nd ED) to add in stuff into the trilogy (like the Kislevite song used in the reveal trailer for game 3 and the inclusion of Yuri Kovalenko the Ungol Prince).
    Other non-canon things (along with the aforementioned above things with Storm of Chaos and Todbringer's son) are things like the Dwarf Juggernauts (which is a pity), Baba Yaga (also a big, damn shame), The Crown of Kislev being a unique thing (also a shame), Balrogs being blatantly in Warhammer, and some more.
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