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Of Southern Realms, Vampirates, Old world and future plans

DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
edited October 2021 in General Discussion
I have always been baffled by the inclusion of unnecesary SR nations in Vortex campaign. Not only Sartosa is too much far away in the east to be relevant for the setting, but also Sudenburg should have been an imperial colony. Their inclusion as SR nations in the beginning of game 2 development, along with many peculiarities from game 1 (SR's unique buildings, unique techs for Norsca and so on), always made me certain that DOW were a given as game 2 campaign pack. Until vampirates. The fact that Sartosa passed from being a SR nation to a VCoast one in the middle of the development sounds, imho, as a clear change of plans by CA.

Why?

Part of the reason could easily be found in the bigger appeal of a zombie pirates DLC, and in the fact that CA may have wanted to pick the opportunities offered by a race not so easily fitting game 3 setting.

However, this doesn't explain, imho, pushing SR/DOW away from game 2 and dropping tonnes of lord packs.

I think is quite established that the return of GW Old World has been heavily influeced by the success of TWW 1 & 2. I think we can say that the inclusion of Cathay and Kislev in game 3 (which seem not to have been in the original leaked project) could be the consequence of GW's will to return on Old World after the above-mentioned success (solving meanwhile the 'only evil starter races' problem that the original project had). I think this happened during game 2 development.

Maybe I'm inferring something obvious but I wanted to know your opinion about this: isn't possible that the pushing away of SR/DOW from game 2 was due to GW wanting to expand them in Old World project (as it seems plausible from recent BP revelations) and to release them as TWW3 campaign pack in a second moment (the same way they are doing with Kislev and Cathay)?.
Should we expect them as a very likely late TWW3 campaign pack because of this, and so expect pre-order not to be a SR/DOW race pack?


P.s. I've been lurking the forum since late 2016, but only now i fought laziness and decided to make an account and write ^^ so, hello folks!

p.p.s. sorry for my 'unenglish'...
Post edited by Durinelminpietra on

Comments

  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,084

    but also Sudenburg should have been an imperial colony.

    I think it became "Southern Realms" just so the Empire couldn't confederate it.
  • DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
    SerPus said:

    but also Sudenburg should have been an imperial colony.

    I think it became "Southern Realms" just so the Empire couldn't confederate it.
    Even before they decided to make Empire playable in the Vortex? Cause if I remember correctly Sudenburg has always been in SR race..way long before CA opted for crossovers
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,084

    Even before they decided to make Empire playable in the Vortex?

    ME was planned since the beginning and came just one month later.
  • DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
    SerPus said:

    Even before they decided to make Empire playable in the Vortex?

    ME was planned since the beginning and came just one month later.
    My bad! Didn't realized you were talking about ME. You got a point. Still baffled by Sartosa's change of race though.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,140

    SerPus said:

    Even before they decided to make Empire playable in the Vortex?

    ME was planned since the beginning and came just one month later.
    My bad! Didn't realized you were talking about ME. You got a point. Still baffled by Sartosa's change of race though.
    Partly I think it's just circumstance. The Vampire coast DLC had weird conditions on what characters could be used. They obviously decided on Aranessa first and then realised she could be squeezed onto Sartosa.

    Regardless game 3 Immortal Empires is likely to be a total rework of the combined map; so who knows how it might shake out.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,084

    Still baffled by Sartosa's change of race though.

    CA wanted to make pirate DLC, so they used pirate island.
  • DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
    edited October 2021


    Partly I think it's just circumstance. The Vampire coast DLC had weird conditions on what characters could be used. They obviously decided on Aranessa first and then realised she could be squeezed onto Sartosa.

    SerPus said:


    CA wanted to make pirate DLC, so they used pirate island.

    Sure! but why put Sartosa in from the beginning? it wasn't as obvious as putting Aranessa there as they decided to make vampirates, imho.

    Edit:
    I'm not wondered at the fact that they switched Sartosa to vampirates but at the fact that they included the island as SR in the initial TWW2 project. Couldn't it be because of an initial intention of release DOW as a campaign pack?
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,726
    The Southern Realms and Araby are a strange choice to be not included into TWW2. You are correct, Sudenburgs change to a SR faction was strange.
    However naturally both SR and Araby would fit seamlessly into TWW2 setting.

    Estalia and Tilea are famous for exploring the world and getting colonies elsewhere. Indeed allmost all human settlements in the New World belong to them.
    Similarly Araby too is a player on the international theatre, sole unique neighbour of the Tomb Kings and has its entire heartlands present on the map.

    After the Vcoast release there was a high speculation on who of the two would come first. But neither did for reasons CA has not explained thus far. Most likley multiple factors went in tandem with each other, like TWW3 development, the urge to bring TWW1 factions up to speed, ressource allocation etc.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
    sykall said:



    After the Vcoast release there was a high speculation on who of the two would come first. But neither did for reasons CA has not explained thus far. Most likley multiple factors went in tandem with each other, like TWW3 development, the urge to bring TWW1 factions up to speed, ressource allocation etc.

    Yeah, I think one of possible reasons (for SR) is that GW planned to expand them in Old World and want TWW version of SR to follow their new concept
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 5,135
    With the unexpected news of the Border Prince rework in the OTW, the chances for SR to make an appearance in Game 3 are very high.

    It’s anyone’s guess as to why they didn’t come in Game 2 but that’s neither here nor there. We will likely see them in Game 3.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • Karak_SpoonKarak_Spoon Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,438
    Bonutz said:

    With the unexpected news of the Border Prince rework in the OTW, the chances for SR to make an appearance in Game 3 are very high.

    It’s anyone’s guess as to why they didn’t come in Game 2 but that’s neither here nor there. We will likely see them in Game 3.


    A Southern Realms rework in game 2 wouldn't have worked because the Border Princes would be Mortal Empires exclusive faction and CA hasn't made any Mortal Empires exclusive content.

    Outside of a few minor factions for the existing races and some new provinces in the Dark Lands.

    Markus Wulfhart might have been the reason Tilea and Estallia weren't given a rework because the New World Colonies were most likely made into an Empire minor faction to give them more presence on the Vortex Campaign map.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 6,524
    One has to look at the Russian datamine, they only planned 2 races for game two and just stuck to that.

    It was less of a decision not to include this race or that but that the Tomb Kings a traditional booked race, and Vampire Coast got chosen. Ir was stated that the Vampire Coast was basically chosen in development of game 2.

    And before Norsca there had simply been zero plans to make any minor race. Period.

    And that was based on need, with moving the Skaven to a starter race they had just one opening. They didn't have a further need and I dont thin they expected Wathammer 3 to be so fat out. 3k delays, covid delays, and 3 being a large project just kept pushing things back.

    Southern Realms was literally made just so the Empire couldn't confederate.
  • DurinelminpietraDurinelminpietra Registered Users Posts: 273
    Nyxilis said:

    One has to look at the Russian datamine, they only planned 2 races for game two and just stuck to that.

    It was less of a decision not to include this race or that but that the Tomb Kings a traditional booked race, and Vampire Coast got chosen. Ir was stated that the Vampire Coast was basically chosen in development of game 2.

    And before Norsca there had simply been zero plans to make any minor race. Period.

    And that was based on need, with moving the Skaven to a starter race they had just one opening. They didn't have a further need and I dont thin they expected Wathammer 3 to be so fat out. 3k delays, covid delays, and 3 being a large project just kept pushing things back.

    Southern Realms was literally made just so the Empire couldn't confederate.

    I think firstly they planned to do skaven and tomb kings, then they expanded, planned Norsca, skaven as 4th race and SR as second campaign pack (hence the inclusion of Sartosa in Vortex). Then again, after the birth of Old World project, opted for vampire coast in game 2 and much more fleshed out-GW approved DOW/SR race for late game 3, race that will be seen in Old World as well
  • Lord_ZarkovLord_Zarkov Registered Users Posts: 1,291


    Partly I think it's just circumstance. The Vampire coast DLC had weird conditions on what characters could be used. They obviously decided on Aranessa first and then realised she could be squeezed onto Sartosa.

    SerPus said:


    CA wanted to make pirate DLC, so they used pirate island.

    Sure! but why put Sartosa in from the beginning? it wasn't as obvious as putting Aranessa there as they decided to make vampirates, imho.

    Edit:
    I'm not wondered at the fact that they switched Sartosa to vampirates but at the fact that they included the island as SR in the initial TWW2 project. Couldn't it be because of an initial intention of release DOW as a campaign pack?

    Possibly it gave them options? Either they knew at the start Vampirates were coming, or if they didn’t it would give an option for a sensible DoW Vortex start point which would be a sensible back up.
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