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Ice witches and snow leopards

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  • UberReptilianUberReptilian The Crystal LabyrinthRegistered Users Posts: 5,494
    ArneSo said:

    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?

    When the alternative is making them the same as other Heros/Lords but better because magic, pretty great imo.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 26,454

    ArneSo said:

    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?

    When the alternative is making them the same as other Heros/Lords but better because magic, pretty great imo.
    But they aren’t better. They still suck in melee.

    Have you ever put a Gunnery Wight on a Crab? That’s how Casters on a Bear will perform.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian The Crystal LabyrinthRegistered Users Posts: 5,494
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?

    When the alternative is making them the same as other Heros/Lords but better because magic, pretty great imo.
    But they aren’t better. They still suck in melee.

    Have you ever put a Gunnery Wight on a Crab? That’s how Casters on a Bear will perform.
    Yes that's why I like it. Gives them a weakness and doesn't render Melee characters worthless since why would I use one when I can use one that also is a caster? When Tzar Boris arrives why would I want to play him when his daughter is him but also a caster? Diverse playstyles is why I like mount diversity. Gor rok does not play like Kroq-gar after all.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Registered Users Posts: 995

    I was just having a look through the kislev roster in comparison to Cathay and had a thought.

    Instead of the bear mount option why not let the ice witches/frost maidens have a snow leopard mount option instead.

    They would be low armoured and Squishy but fast moving and have fear and a high charge bonus.

    They would be more versatile and it would reduce the reliance on Bears in the roster and provide a unit with a different role on the battlefield. I think having them on a bear would be a bit of a waste running around the outside of your formations.

    I don't think it would be hard for CA and GW to come up with some lore to justify it.

    Ice Witches should've had Giant Elks (and these are present in Kislev) as mounts for themselves and Ice Maidens. Ice Witches also should have Frostfiend mounts that would give Kislev air-support in the form of a scary bat monster. Katarin should have both of those and her pimp-sleds pulled by Giant Elks made of snow and ice like the Elemental Bear is.
  • DemonRazielDemonRaziel Registered Users Posts: 148
    edited October 13
    While I understand that felines don't make for a good mount iRL, I don't think it's as big a problem in a fantasy setting. A certain amount of hand waving for the rule of cool is expected and present all over the setting.

    That being said, I'd much prefer elks and sleighs as new mount options for Witches and Maidens.

    If those are not going to happen, for whatever reason (i.e. they're being kept for DLC because "pay us more money if you want mount diversity"), adding the snow leopard and war sled as mount options for caster and non-caster lords and heroes respectively would be a compromise I'd find reasonable.
  • overtaker40overtaker40 Registered Users Posts: 255
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?

    When the alternative is making them the same as other Heros/Lords but better because magic, pretty great imo.
    But they aren’t better. They still suck in melee.

    Have you ever put a Gunnery Wight on a Crab? That’s how Casters on a Bear will perform.
    I don't really get you are you mad, your comments make you sound like this actually makes you angry. I had a genuine chuckle when I read your gunnery wight comment.

    I do think that CA does at least consider what fans talk about.

    But Your right that it probably won't happen and I'm not claiming that there is any precedent for it. I just think it would be fun and wouldn't break emersion.

    Honestly, hypothetically, if you had the choice between only a leopard mount or bear mount for your squishy caster, which would you pick?
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,299
    edited October 13
    I'd be okay ADDING the Snow Leopard as a mount for casters, since it's still a melee viable hybrid unit.

    They need to add a beefier melee option for the melee characters too though. An Orthodox War Altar or a cataphract grizzly bear or something.

    I'm totally lukewarm to the 'Empire clone caster' suggestions of just Elk and Horses in a Race deliberately designed to have melee-capable hybrids.

    Kislev casters can/SHOULD be good in melee. It's the Race design.

    That, by itself, doesn't ruin the melee characters by default. They just need to make sure that melee characters still have unique options. It's NOT the fact that Kislev casters can fight which is the problem. That's a deliberate Race design. It's the fact the mount options are IDENTICAL.

    The Lizardmen are an example of how this can be properly handled. Skink Casters can still brawl on Stegadons! They don't make Kroq-Gar or Scar-Vets obsolete because Carnosaurs fill a totally different tactical, MELEE niche.

    Now, for Kislev, I'd be okay if these roles are REVERSED. The casters can be the Carnosaurs/leopards (fast and specialized) while the melee characters can be the Stegadons/bears (beefy and brawly).

    ^But whatever distinction they draw, Kislev casters can/should still be solid in combat.

    This whole *make them play like Empire casters obsession cuz that's how it was in the 4th edition* argument just needs to die. This is not your grandmother's Kislev. Even in the siege blog, they said Kislev siege maps are about Kislev men AND women fighting tooth and claw in the streets.

    It's a Race of melee capable hybrids. That's what it is now. Casters included. If that bothers you, or you're not interested, you can play something else that isn't so hybrid focused.

    But the suggestions of 'fixing' Kislev, by making it more similar to the Empire or Bretonnia by limiting casters to horses or other similarly fast and squishy draft animals just seems rooted in people who just aren't interested in Kislev's theme as a Race.

    ^And if you're not interested, fine. Not all Races are going to interest all people. But like, the whole point of asymmetric design is to give them different design themes. Making Kislev casters more like Empire casters isn't any more helpful to the health of the game than making Vampire casters or Lizardmen casters similar to the Empire. It's just not how any of those Races have been designed
    Post edited by Valkaar on
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,757
    edited October 13

    Anyways, actually I didn't expect Leopard to be a unit of Kislev. I expected Elk though. Since CA already gave Leopard for them, why not? Just make its body able to carry human like the White Lions in the picture I posted above.
    Post edited by Grom_the_Paunch on
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 6,842
    Is it big enough? It would look comical if the mount is too small. Now cat chariot, that would be cool.

  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 26,454
    edited October 13

    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?

    When the alternative is making them the same as other Heros/Lords but better because magic, pretty great imo.
    But they aren’t better. They still suck in melee.

    Have you ever put a Gunnery Wight on a Crab? That’s how Casters on a Bear will perform.
    I don't really get you are you mad, your comments make you sound like this actually makes you angry. I had a genuine chuckle when I read your gunnery wight comment.

    I do think that CA does at least consider what fans talk about.

    But Your right that it probably won't happen and I'm not claiming that there is any precedent for it. I just think it would be fun and wouldn't break emersion.

    Honestly, hypothetically, if you had the choice between only a leopard mount or bear mount for your squishy caster, which would you pick?
    I‘m not angry at all. Why would I? It’s a forum about a video game. 😅

    I‘m just tired of people claiming that Casters on a bear will be melee monsters like Dragon riders. It’s just a bear… the witches will still suck in melee.

    Edit:
    I don’t want the Leopard to be a mount and only having a bear is fine for me since I usually never use mounts anyways.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian The Crystal LabyrinthRegistered Users Posts: 5,494
    edited October 13
    SerPus said:

    Now cat chariot, that would be cool.

    Not like there isn't precedent for that, since we have the White Lion chariots too. The Cat Chariot can be the Kislev version, like how Cathay has their version of Warplock Jezzails.
    Post edited by Grom_the_Paunch on
  • EthorinEthorin Registered Users Posts: 626
    they are not nearly big enough based on what we saw in the trailer.
  • MonerisMoneris Registered Users Posts: 312
    Ethorin said:

    they are not nearly big enough based on what we saw in the trailer.

    Didn't the Cat grasp an entire Chaos cultist/champion in its Jaws before launching it into the air?



    Its fairly big
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,183
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    The Snow leopard doesn’t make sense as a mount… it’s a magical cat.

    But bears, stags, dragons, unicorns and demons do?
    Yes. They are big enough to be ridden. Cats are to small.
    Make them a bit bigger, they only need to be large enough for a light human women.

    Lore idea: Maybe they were captured as cubs and hand raised while being imbued with magic to grow much larger. A bond formed between ice witches and the cub they raised from birth. I'm saying it's not so ridiculous that it wouldn't work in the warhammer world.

    And again would allow for less focus on bears.
    Or just don’t make them mounts at all. How does that sound?
    Bad, it sounds bad !

    Kitties mounts for Ice Witches makes lot of sense, they are adorned in the same ice tirnkets, they're squishy and speedy, and the Ice Court should have nothing to do with Ursun nor bears. You don't have Ikkit riding a Plague Furnace, then neither should the Witches be on Bears !
  • Teegan2004Teegan2004 Registered Users Posts: 82
    ArneSo said:

    The Snow leopard doesn’t make sense as a mount… it’s a magical cat.

    Read the excerpt in the roster reveal. It says they can be trained to guard ice witches.
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,637
    Skeletor gives the idea a thumbs up!


  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,385
    I like how this entire thread is someone thinking cats are illogical mounts in a game where almost every race has at least one mount that would make absolutely 0 sense IRL.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 15,430
    #snowkitttymountmovement

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 895
    NO!
    Stop it, not everything should be a mount. The uniqueness of the cat in their role, to be a guardian for Ice Witches, not their Uber.

    Besides how the hell it should look like? Witches wears coat-dresses, which are hide their legs.

    So they are forced to ride it with legs on one side, like Bertonian Damsel.

    The cat themself have feline animation, look at the back of the cat, its constantly moving.

    The witch need some sort of glue to stay on such a mount, again they can not use it like that -

    We already seen their ingame models. They cant spread their legs to sit on it properly, it will looks junky. I think its the main reason why CA didnt implement it in the game. And I'm glad, it makes them more unique, more specialized, and it fits the lore.
    Not every four-legged creature should be a mount, for that Kislev have Elks, Horses and Sleds. I want the Сreative Assembly to be CREATIVE, instead of seeking easy, weird solutions. I want to see normal sleds with ice-horses, instead of re-using of cats-assets.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,030
    The concept art shows the Witches riding bears without having to ride sidesaddle, why should the Ice Kitty be a problem?


  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 2,611
    You know what? There was some bickering here. Mr. Whiskers and I were very disappointed.

    Let's not do that personal stuff. Peace, love and happy snotties... and maybe an extra kitty cat or two.
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,385

    You know what? There was some bickering here. Mr. Whiskers and I were very disappointed.

    Let's not do that personal stuff. Peace, love and happy snotties... and maybe an extra kitty cat or two.



    I offer a sacrifice to Da Boss.

    But on topic I don't think people really want Leopard mounts that much. Its more of that between leopards and bears the leopards make more sense and add mount diversity.
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 911
    I am not convinced that the snow leopard has animations that are suitable for a rider. I think it would look rather stupid. That's about my only criticism.
  • DemonRazielDemonRaziel Registered Users Posts: 148


    Not every four-legged creature should be a mount, for that Kislev have Elks, Horses and Sleds. I want the Сreative Assembly to be CREATIVE, instead of seeking easy, weird solutions. I want to see normal sleds with ice-horses, instead of re-using of cats-assets.

    And instead, we got the "creative" solution of "You get a bear and you get a bear and you get a bear! And a bog standard horse to sweeten the deal."

    I don't think most people desperatly wish for the cat-mount, they just want greater mount diversity.

    And when 1 of the arguments for why it's perfectly fine for Kislev to only get a horse and a mount for everyone was that you can only get a mount from existing units, they point out that even with that limitation there were options for more mounts - such as the snow leopard.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 895
    KN_Gars said:

    The concept art shows the Witches riding bears without having to ride sidesaddle, why should the Ice Kitty be a problem?


    CONCEPT art. Need I say more?

    Meanwhile we have in-game model, which look like this.

    They don't even have a cutout on the dress to sit on the horse like that.

    Also concept usually looks like this

    I dont think your image is concept, the concepts usually show the model from every side or just sideways. What you refer to is just an art.
    For example, this is a concept art

    And this is even better example because on this concept art we can see how it could REALLY looks in the game :D
    pay attention to legs >:)

    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 895
    edited October 13


    Not every four-legged creature should be a mount, for that Kislev have Elks, Horses and Sleds. I want the Сreative Assembly to be CREATIVE, instead of seeking easy, weird solutions. I want to see normal sleds with ice-horses, instead of re-using of cats-assets.


    And when 1 of the arguments for why it's perfectly fine for Kislev to only get a horse and a mount for everyone was that you can only get a mount from existing units, they point out that even with that limitation there were options for more mounts - such as the snow leopard.
    Do you know thats a silly argument. Why you even defend it? They can make reskin for horse and call it Ice-horse :|
    It doesnt require much effort. But no, instead lets get busy with jumpy feline animations and lets cut the dresses of ice-witches, which is required different lower part of character. Which they need to sawp the each time when you change your mount.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 4,087
    KN_Gars said:

    The concept art shows the Witches riding bears without having to ride sidesaddle, why should the Ice Kitty be a problem?


    Resisting urge to joke about....frigid cooch...


    Not every four-legged creature should be a mount, for that Kislev have Elks, Horses and Sleds. I want the Сreative Assembly to be CREATIVE, instead of seeking easy, weird solutions. I want to see normal sleds with ice-horses, instead of re-using of cats-assets.

    And instead, we got the "creative" solution of "You get a bear and you get a bear and you get a bear! And a bog standard horse to sweeten the deal."

    I don't think most people desperatly wish for the cat-mount, they just want greater mount diversity.

    And when 1 of the arguments for why it's perfectly fine for Kislev to only get a horse and a mount for everyone was that you can only get a mount from existing units, they point out that even with that limitation there were options for more mounts - such as the snow leopard.
    And a stag coloured white borrowed from WE. A horse with ice effects.


    Those goddamn ice sleds that looks stupid carrying lowly gunners and a cannon but would have fit a high class ice witch
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,183

    I like how this entire thread is someone thinking cats are illogical mounts in a game where almost every race has at least one mount that would make absolutely 0 sense IRL.

    You mean giant raptors and spiders aren't a sensical choice for your mount ?
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,299

    KN_Gars said:

    The concept art shows the Witches riding bears without having to ride sidesaddle, why should the Ice Kitty be a problem?


    CONCEPT art. Need I say more?

    Meanwhile we have in-game model, which look like this.

    They don't even have a cutout on the dress to sit on the horse like that.

    Also concept usually looks like this

    I dont think your image is concept, the concepts usually show the model from every side or just sideways. What you refer to is just an art.
    For example, this is a concept art

    And this is even better example because on this concept art we can see how it could REALLY looks in the game :D
    pay attention to legs >:)

    Is that art of Katarin's Bear Official!!??

    Visually, it looks way better than I anticipated.

    Don't get me wrong, I still want increased mount variety!

    But I'll take the very small consolation of unique LL armor designs if nothing else gets developed.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 895
    Valkaar said:

    KN_Gars said:

    The concept art shows the Witches riding bears without having to ride sidesaddle, why should the Ice Kitty be a problem?


    CONCEPT art. Need I say more?

    Meanwhile we have in-game model, which look like this.

    They don't even have a cutout on the dress to sit on the horse like that.

    Also concept usually looks like this

    I dont think your image is concept, the concepts usually show the model from every side or just sideways. What you refer to is just an art.
    For example, this is a concept art

    And this is even better example because on this concept art we can see how it could REALLY looks in the game :D
    pay attention to legs >:)

    Is that art of Katarin's Bear Official!!??

    Visually, it looks way better than I anticipated.

    Look at right bottom corner of the images ;)

    Ya, its not bad, but two is still too little.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
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