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Ogre Kingdoms roster speculation

EmeraldThanatosEmeraldThanatos Registered Users Posts: 2,840
edited October 16 in General Discussion
Almost a year ago, I made a post about the rosters and dlc I thought the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos dwarfs would have in wh3.
10 months later and Ogres are all but confirmed to be the preorder race for WH3. I thought it take this opportunity to revise that list, as the preorder reveal is likely to happen in a few weeks. Without further ado, here's the list:


Colour coding:
Green: part of the preorder dlc
Purple: part of an OK dlc later on in wh3
Blue: Maybe a LH? Maybe FLC?
Red: I expect these units to be scrapped altogether.

I think every unit from the Ogre Kingdoms armybook will make it into WH3 at some point, unless there are other units that replace them (Gnoblar Fighers replaced with the shielded variant).

For LLs I think OK will launch with 3, similar to Bretonnia or WoC, rather than Norsca, WE or Beastmen. Of course the roster is more fleshed out than any of those races.

I chose the Firebelly to be a dlc hero, because out of the ogre kingdoms heroes, it is the least needed hero, but is still very cool. Manbiters would make a nice more "elite" gnoblar unit, rhinox cav are there because they fit well with Ghark Ironskin, and the scraplauncher is there because of the 8th edition armybook units, it is the only one I could see not being in the game at launch, and the dlc needed a centerpiece unit.

I might also revise the Chaos Dwarf prediction at some point, but that can wait because Chorfs are at least somewhat later down the line. My bet is on a Campaign Pack in summer or fall 2021.

Edit: for people who want a number, that is 29 units, lords and heroes, of which some are already in the game and many are weapon variants.
The number of truly new units is closer to 20
Ranking of all Total War games I've played:
1. Three kingdoms
2. Shogun 2
3. Warhammer
4. Medieval 2
5. Thrones
6. Attila
7. Rome 2
8. Napoleon
9. Empire
10. Troy (haven't actually played it, I'm just still salty)

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Comments

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,351
    I love a good speculation thread. Been a while.
  • Jote191Jote191 Registered Users Posts: 1,612
    Looking at the Gnoblar units as potentially getting scrapped makes me want to cry.....
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,351
    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,292
    Very much doubt we'll see a DLC for them at all, we've never had an LP for a race pack introduced in the same game. All the units you've picked out in purple though I expect to be in the vase roster though, Scraplauncher and Firebelly especially seeing as the first has been part of the roster since the beginning and the second has the only other lore of magic OK have access to
  • Morpic_TideMorpic_Tide Registered Users Posts: 92
    We already have the Mournfang through their Cavalry so the "Feral" version would be a trivial toss-in, and we do need Gnobblars for chaff. Ogres just don't fit in tier one.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,462

    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.

    I completely disagree. Wh3 we have already been told will be supported for a very long time (I suspect at least 5 years personally), and I think we can expect to see armybooks more or less completed (outside of named characters in races that are particularly dense in them and the occasional redundant hero and such), I think expecting 1 LP for Ogres is really not betting against the odds at all, not even close, and I think 1 LP is probably all they will need to finish them up.
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,640
    It's a decent list! I'd say mine differs in that I don't think there'll be a lord pack, and I don't think there'll be feral variants of the Stonehorn and Thundertusk, but otherwise it's solid!
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Let it be known that I was foolish enough to doubt UberReptilian, who, in her infinite wisdom, predicted that the Ogre Kingdoms would be the preorder bonus before even the Ogre Mercenary FLC for Warhammer II. This signature will stand as a monument to my shame. Woe upon me!
  • EmeraldThanatosEmeraldThanatos Registered Users Posts: 2,840

    We already have the Mournfang through their Cavalry so the "Feral" version would be a trivial toss-in, and we do need Gnobblars for chaff. Ogres just don't fit in tier one.

    I'm trying to avoid as much roster bloat as possible. When you play Ogres, you play it for the Ogres, not the gnoblars. You only need a few gnoblar units to be chaff, any more is just taking away resources that should be spent on the actual Ogres.
    Ranking of all Total War games I've played:
    1. Three kingdoms
    2. Shogun 2
    3. Warhammer
    4. Medieval 2
    5. Thrones
    6. Attila
    7. Rome 2
    8. Napoleon
    9. Empire
    10. Troy (haven't actually played it, I'm just still salty)

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,351
    Goatforce said:

    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.

    I completely disagree. Wh3 we have already been told will be supported for a very long time (I suspect at least 5 years personally), and I think we can expect to see armybooks more or less completed (outside of named characters in races that are particularly dense in them and the occasional redundant hero and such), I think expecting 1 LP for Ogres is really not betting against the odds at all, not even close, and I think 1 LP is probably all they will need to finish them up.
    Depends if they up the pace or not.
    And if they start with crossgame packs or not.

    If they start with crossgame packs and increase the pace at maybe 3 packs a year then yes.

    If not no.
  • ChoraChora Registered Users Posts: 611
    Nice post, thanks. I think OK roster will be much better than the other 6 on release, because I don’t expect they’ll receive a dlc.

    And on that note, dlc for dlc in the same game feels like it’s pushing it
  • JastalllJastalll Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,447
    I strongly doubt there will be like 7 version of Gnoblars. One or two melee ones and Flingers, would be my guess. They'll be pure fodder and I'd be quite surprised to see a Hero or Lord for them as well.

    Most if not all actual Ogre units will make it on release. I have my doubts on Yeetees and Gorgers however, I think only one of them will make the cut, likely Gorgers as they can be Skrag's favored unit. Rhinos and Thundertusks will 100% be in, Stonehorns are also very likely. Feral version would be easy roster pad I suppose but I'd rather they not be there personally, the roster will already be so full of Large units that Ferals would be redundant.

    Heroes I think we'll get 3 max; Bruiser, Butcher and Hunter. Firebelly may replace the Hunter but I doubt it.

    Lords we'll get 2, obviously Tyrant and Slaughtermaster.

    LLs is where it gets spicy. We'll get Greasus and Skrag for sure, after that I think it's a fight between Golgfag and Gark as I believe Ogres will have 3 LLs on launch. If Bragg comes (big if), he's going to be a LH. My money on Golgfag personally but it could go either way, gameplay wise Ogres getting a cavalry LL makes sense.


    As for Lord Pack, that would mean some big centerpiece gets cut for it and I'd rather not, personally. I'd like Ogres to be fleshed out enough that they need no LP.
  • DragonbroodlingsDragonbroodlings Registered Users Posts: 219
    Can anyone give me a solid difference for mournfang vs rhinox cavalry? Was one more armored or something? I'm way looking forward to this list.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,462

    Goatforce said:

    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.

    I completely disagree. Wh3 we have already been told will be supported for a very long time (I suspect at least 5 years personally), and I think we can expect to see armybooks more or less completed (outside of named characters in races that are particularly dense in them and the occasional redundant hero and such), I think expecting 1 LP for Ogres is really not betting against the odds at all, not even close, and I think 1 LP is probably all they will need to finish them up.
    Depends if they up the pace or not.
    And if they start with crossgame packs or not.

    If they start with crossgame packs and increase the pace at maybe 3 packs a year then yes.

    If not no.
    The average release window for LPs until Covid was just shy of 3 packs a year (Coast pushed it up, S&B pushed it down), so I don't think that is a massive ask. I am hoping we get a significantly increased release schedule, at the very least for the first DLC wave, with the freeing up of the WH3 team (yes there will be other projects but not necessarily in advanced or heavy development for a while afterwards).

    Also it is worth factoring in the fact that most races have all or most of their armybook units. From that perspective LM and DEs are complete already. if we assume a 5 year cycle for DLC (which I think is a conservative minimum) and on that tighter timeline prioritise armybook unit completion over everything else (LM, DE, Bretonnia, BM, WE get no DLC, and WoC might be ruled out depending on how Monos are handled), that leaves a rather managable number of races:

    Empire, Dwarfs, VCs, GS, HEs, SK, TKs, and adding OKs as a none game 3 core race makes 8 LPs needed at minimum after the 1st wave to give all the races with missing armybook units a touch up. That is also assuming that CA keep the requirement of having a core in their LPs, if they don't then 4 LPs would be sufficient and the issue is solved.

    Personally I see the OKs as being rather easy to fit in there, even if the timeline is a tight one. As soon as you start expanding the timeline by a year or 2, or speeding up DLC releases (for example by making a 2nd DLC teams with alternate releases, which is probably the most optimistic method of speeding up DLC) it suddenly seems very easy.
  • ASyrianASyrian Registered Users Posts: 1,016

    Almost a year ago, I made a post about the rosters and dlc I thought the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos dwarfs would have in wh3.
    10 months later and Ogres are all but confirmed to be the preorder race for WH3. I thought it take this opportunity to revise that list, as the preorder reveal is likely to happen in a few weeks. Without further ado, here's the list:


    Colour coding:
    Green: part of the preorder dlc
    Purple: part of an OK dlc later on in wh3
    Blue: Maybe a LH? Maybe FLC?
    Red: I expect these units to be scrapped altogether.

    I think every unit from the Ogre Kingdoms armybook will make it into WH3 at some point, unless there are other units that replace them (Gnoblar Fighers replaced with the shielded variant).

    For LLs I think OK will launch with 3, similar to Bretonnia or WoC, rather than Norsca, WE or Beastmen. Of course the roster is more fleshed out than any of those races.

    I chose the Firebelly to be a dlc hero, because out of the ogre kingdoms heroes, it is the least needed hero, but is still very cool. Manbiters would make a nice more "elite" gnoblar unit, rhinox cav are there because they fit well with Ghark Ironskin, and the scraplauncher is there because of the 8th edition armybook units, it is the only one I could see not being in the game at launch, and the dlc needed a centerpiece unit.

    I might also revise the Chaos Dwarf prediction at some point, but that can wait because Chorfs are at least somewhat later down the line. My bet is on a Campaign Pack in summer or fall 2021.

    Edit: for people who want a number, that is 29 units, lords and heroes, of which some are already in the game and many are weapon variants.
    The number of truly new units is closer to 20

    "All but confirmed" oh sweet summerchild
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,640
    ASyrian said:

    Almost a year ago, I made a post about the rosters and dlc I thought the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos dwarfs would have in wh3.
    10 months later and Ogres are all but confirmed to be the preorder race for WH3. I thought it take this opportunity to revise that list, as the preorder reveal is likely to happen in a few weeks. Without further ado, here's the list:


    Colour coding:
    Green: part of the preorder dlc
    Purple: part of an OK dlc later on in wh3
    Blue: Maybe a LH? Maybe FLC?
    Red: I expect these units to be scrapped altogether.

    I think every unit from the Ogre Kingdoms armybook will make it into WH3 at some point, unless there are other units that replace them (Gnoblar Fighers replaced with the shielded variant).

    For LLs I think OK will launch with 3, similar to Bretonnia or WoC, rather than Norsca, WE or Beastmen. Of course the roster is more fleshed out than any of those races.

    I chose the Firebelly to be a dlc hero, because out of the ogre kingdoms heroes, it is the least needed hero, but is still very cool. Manbiters would make a nice more "elite" gnoblar unit, rhinox cav are there because they fit well with Ghark Ironskin, and the scraplauncher is there because of the 8th edition armybook units, it is the only one I could see not being in the game at launch, and the dlc needed a centerpiece unit.

    I might also revise the Chaos Dwarf prediction at some point, but that can wait because Chorfs are at least somewhat later down the line. My bet is on a Campaign Pack in summer or fall 2021.

    Edit: for people who want a number, that is 29 units, lords and heroes, of which some are already in the game and many are weapon variants.
    The number of truly new units is closer to 20

    "All but confirmed" oh sweet summerchild
    What makes you think the Ogres aren't the preorder?
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

    Let it be known that I was foolish enough to doubt UberReptilian, who, in her infinite wisdom, predicted that the Ogre Kingdoms would be the preorder bonus before even the Ogre Mercenary FLC for Warhammer II. This signature will stand as a monument to my shame. Woe upon me!
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 651

    ASyrian said:

    Almost a year ago, I made a post about the rosters and dlc I thought the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos dwarfs would have in wh3.
    10 months later and Ogres are all but confirmed to be the preorder race for WH3. I thought it take this opportunity to revise that list, as the preorder reveal is likely to happen in a few weeks. Without further ado, here's the list:


    Colour coding:
    Green: part of the preorder dlc
    Purple: part of an OK dlc later on in wh3
    Blue: Maybe a LH? Maybe FLC?
    Red: I expect these units to be scrapped altogether.

    I think every unit from the Ogre Kingdoms armybook will make it into WH3 at some point, unless there are other units that replace them (Gnoblar Fighers replaced with the shielded variant).

    For LLs I think OK will launch with 3, similar to Bretonnia or WoC, rather than Norsca, WE or Beastmen. Of course the roster is more fleshed out than any of those races.

    I chose the Firebelly to be a dlc hero, because out of the ogre kingdoms heroes, it is the least needed hero, but is still very cool. Manbiters would make a nice more "elite" gnoblar unit, rhinox cav are there because they fit well with Ghark Ironskin, and the scraplauncher is there because of the 8th edition armybook units, it is the only one I could see not being in the game at launch, and the dlc needed a centerpiece unit.

    I might also revise the Chaos Dwarf prediction at some point, but that can wait because Chorfs are at least somewhat later down the line. My bet is on a Campaign Pack in summer or fall 2021.

    Edit: for people who want a number, that is 29 units, lords and heroes, of which some are already in the game and many are weapon variants.
    The number of truly new units is closer to 20

    "All but confirmed" oh sweet summerchild
    What makes you think the Ogres aren't the preorder?
    I assume he is holding on to delusional hope it's something else despite the constant hints.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,351
    Goatforce said:

    Goatforce said:

    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.

    I completely disagree. Wh3 we have already been told will be supported for a very long time (I suspect at least 5 years personally), and I think we can expect to see armybooks more or less completed (outside of named characters in races that are particularly dense in them and the occasional redundant hero and such), I think expecting 1 LP for Ogres is really not betting against the odds at all, not even close, and I think 1 LP is probably all they will need to finish them up.
    Depends if they up the pace or not.
    And if they start with crossgame packs or not.

    If they start with crossgame packs and increase the pace at maybe 3 packs a year then yes.

    If not no.
    The average release window for LPs until Covid was just shy of 3 packs a year (Coast pushed it up, S&B pushed it down), so I don't think that is a massive ask. I am hoping we get a significantly increased release schedule, at the very least for the first DLC wave, with the freeing up of the WH3 team (yes there will be other projects but not necessarily in advanced or heavy development for a while afterwards).

    Also it is worth factoring in the fact that most races have all or most of their armybook units. From that perspective LM and DEs are complete already. if we assume a 5 year cycle for DLC (which I think is a conservative minimum) and on that tighter timeline prioritise armybook unit completion over everything else (LM, DE, Bretonnia, BM, WE get no DLC, and WoC might be ruled out depending on how Monos are handled), that leaves a rather managable number of races:

    Empire, Dwarfs, VCs, GS, HEs, SK, TKs, and adding OKs as a none game 3 core race makes 8 LPs needed at minimum after the 1st wave to give all the races with missing armybook units a touch up. That is also assuming that CA keep the requirement of having a core in their LPs, if they don't then 4 LPs would be sufficient and the issue is solved.

    Personally I see the OKs as being rather easy to fit in there, even if the timeline is a tight one. As soon as you start expanding the timeline by a year or 2, or speeding up DLC releases (for example by making a 2nd DLC teams with alternate releases, which is probably the most optimistic method of speeding up DLC) it suddenly seems very easy.
    OK will likely get their whole army book roster in the pack.

    Brettonia could really use a lord pack, and with GW confirming they are being updated with old world we will likely see that.
    WoC will likely get one too as they need an update.

    Norsca aswell as CA have already said they are on the list for rework soon.

    Then the fact that the empire or dwarfs might get 2.
  • Domokun84Domokun84 Registered Users Posts: 208
    edited October 17
    5 years is not conservative that's a pretty liberal interpretation of how long they will keep supporting and churning out new dlcs. Considering that dlcs don't just vie with each other for consumer dollars but with the greater strategy gaming world, technical innovations and CA's future projects as well.

    Conservative is 3 years. Warhammer came out 5 years ago, the only reason it keeps getting supported is the base games 2 and 3 which will eventually show it's age. In 5 years this will be a 10 year old engine they are building on and something will have probably superceded it.

    You have 6 core races 2 additional garaunteed races then reworks of older races. DLC for 8 races alone is a huge workload that will probably carry warhammer tw to the end of its cycle. They will start rolling off devs and architects probably after year one or two to other TW projects.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,701
    I really hope they have gnoblars, just wont be the same without them.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,462

    Goatforce said:

    Goatforce said:

    Don't think we can expect Ogres to get a dlc further down the line. It would be nice, but given the amount of other races it might not happen. So I think it would be a shame if the scrap launcher and rhinox were left out.

    I completely disagree. Wh3 we have already been told will be supported for a very long time (I suspect at least 5 years personally), and I think we can expect to see armybooks more or less completed (outside of named characters in races that are particularly dense in them and the occasional redundant hero and such), I think expecting 1 LP for Ogres is really not betting against the odds at all, not even close, and I think 1 LP is probably all they will need to finish them up.
    Depends if they up the pace or not.
    And if they start with crossgame packs or not.

    If they start with crossgame packs and increase the pace at maybe 3 packs a year then yes.

    If not no.
    The average release window for LPs until Covid was just shy of 3 packs a year (Coast pushed it up, S&B pushed it down), so I don't think that is a massive ask. I am hoping we get a significantly increased release schedule, at the very least for the first DLC wave, with the freeing up of the WH3 team (yes there will be other projects but not necessarily in advanced or heavy development for a while afterwards).

    Also it is worth factoring in the fact that most races have all or most of their armybook units. From that perspective LM and DEs are complete already. if we assume a 5 year cycle for DLC (which I think is a conservative minimum) and on that tighter timeline prioritise armybook unit completion over everything else (LM, DE, Bretonnia, BM, WE get no DLC, and WoC might be ruled out depending on how Monos are handled), that leaves a rather managable number of races:

    Empire, Dwarfs, VCs, GS, HEs, SK, TKs, and adding OKs as a none game 3 core race makes 8 LPs needed at minimum after the 1st wave to give all the races with missing armybook units a touch up. That is also assuming that CA keep the requirement of having a core in their LPs, if they don't then 4 LPs would be sufficient and the issue is solved.

    Personally I see the OKs as being rather easy to fit in there, even if the timeline is a tight one. As soon as you start expanding the timeline by a year or 2, or speeding up DLC releases (for example by making a 2nd DLC teams with alternate releases, which is probably the most optimistic method of speeding up DLC) it suddenly seems very easy.
    OK will likely get their whole army book roster in the pack.

    Brettonia could really use a lord pack, and with GW confirming they are being updated with old world we will likely see that.
    WoC will likely get one too as they need an update.

    Norsca aswell as CA have already said they are on the list for rework soon.

    Then the fact that the empire or dwarfs might get 2.
    I am not so sure about that. It is a RP after all, which are significantly smaller in scale than CPs (hence why they are half the price of one). If they do get their whole roster of course my point is moot and they won't need a LP.

    I don't disagree that they could do with a LP, however my point is in a tight schedule finishing armybooks would probably be the strategy (I believe CA has also once stated they consider Brettonia complete a while back).

    Rework doesn't mean LP, necessarily. But yeah a Norsca LP would be nice.

    Again, I am postulating on a highly limited timeframe and so being economical with LPs, prioritising armybook completeness. I don't disagree that Empire and Dwarfs could receive 2 LPs, so could the Vamps, but that's not the point I'm trying to make here. 1 LP for these could probably cover the armybook stuff and get the important stuff done if push comes to shove, obviously I do not want this to be the case, I want a ton of LPs to fully flesh out all the races as much as they need to be.
  • GrbaGrba Registered Users Posts: 315
    That's one sexy roster,can't wait to play with it!
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,646
    Looking at this just gives me anxiety again over OK being implemented as a Race Pack instead of a Campaign Pack or Core.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,462

    Looking at this just gives me anxiety again over OK being implemented as a Race Pack instead of a Campaign Pack or Core.

    I see what you mean, but I think we can rest assured that mechanically they will almost certainly be at least solid judging by the standard of WH3 campaign mechanics we have seen. Whilst I don't think they will have a 100% complete roster I think they will have a decent one, that can be topped up to full with 1 LP.

    At least that is my prediction, I don't think you need to worry about a WoC level blunder.
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 4,658
    This roster hurt my soul no

    All of this have to be in !


  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 26,676
    Ogres should get all their stuff at launch. I doubt that they’ll get a LP.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • cavebear56cavebear56 What are you trying to glean?Registered Users Posts: 15
    Love it.

    Especially the inclusion of gnoblars from the Unwashed Masses list (which was a list ala Vampire Coast in a White Dwarf issue so they should be included since they based an entire DLC around just that).

    I do agree with other poster(s) that gnoblars must be included, otherwise it really isn't Ogre Kingdoms. It's just ogres.

    It also allows them more flexibility.

    I do hope they aren't relegated to being the faction released ass the race pack as to be fair, the race packs get far less support and care. More along the lines of Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings would be a solid in my book (though I do hope they get a second coat of paint as well down the road).
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,462
    ArneSo said:

    Ogres should get all their stuff at launch. I doubt that they’ll get a LP.

    It'll be a RP though, in other words a £7 pack, as opposed to the £14-15 CPs. I would love it if it is complete but I don't see how that is realistic unless they are actually dropping a CP for pre-order and for some reason referred to it as a RP.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 26,676
    Goatforce said:

    ArneSo said:

    Ogres should get all their stuff at launch. I doubt that they’ll get a LP.

    It'll be a RP though, in other words a £7 pack, as opposed to the £14-15 CPs. I would love it if it is complete but I don't see how that is realistic unless they are actually dropping a CP for pre-order and for some reason referred to it as a RP.
    To be fair, Bretonnia was also just a RP technical and came with a complete roster.

    Considering that we already have a good bunch of the OK roster, I’m optimistic.

    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 1,913
    I think it's gonna be the full army book roster, I just hope they announce it, I won't say the S word but this week or next




  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 5,686
    edited October 18
    It should be their full 8th edition roster. Nothing less (unless there's a good gameplay-redundancy argument for some hero-options or something).

    2-3 Gnoblar variants are enough. Their White Dwarf list is a joke. They never led Ogres; They're even more chaff than some specialised Goblin variants.
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