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Now that Cathay is getting Yin-Yang, can we also get Detachments, ASF and Shieldwall in game

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,278
It's nice to see Cathay getting a rule like Yin-Yang for its units, but a factions like the Empire, Elves and Dwarves all still lack their most iconic rules in the form of Detachments, Always Strikes First and Shieldwall respectively.

These are rules that practically shaped the fighting for these factions, and really made their units much more unique and interesting. So, I think that with WH 3 it would finally be a good time to give these factions back these powerful rules.

Comments

  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,313
    Detachments is easy, as it's pretty much identical to Ying Yang, but that probably the reason why they wont add it in as well, ASF was replaced with Martial Prowess so no need for that, Shieldwall could be cool though, a buff to melee defence when bracing maybe?
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    Detachments were stolen by Cathay and renamed Yin-Yang/Harmony, the HE already have a racial battlefield mechanic and I suspect that CA's interpretation of the Shieldwall was the charge defence vs large or all that a lot of Dwarf units got. So outside mods I do not think we will be seeing any of them.
    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    They could make shield wall an ability that activates when you have units with it formed up next to each other. That is, when they are flanked by another unit that also has shieldwall.

    I would honestly like it if Detachments were an upgrade to existing units. In a way that they aren't a separate unit in the game. So say you have a unit of Halberdiers, and then you have an option to provide them with a detachment of crossbows. In game, you get some extra crossbowmen as part of the main unit, which form up behind the main unit automatically and can't be separated.

    In theory this wouldn't be the same as the Cathay mechanic, really.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • The_real_FAUST#6885The_real_FAUST#6885 Registered Users Posts: 2,072
    The lack of detachments is and has been a bugbear since release

    It perfectly shows the empires professional military. Officers, formed units detachments and a volunteer military class is totally missing.

    Detachments offered such much versatility and tactical thinking into them.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,684
    What about attached weapon teams for Skaven?
    For those who don't know: Warpgrinders, Thing Shredders, Poison Wind Mortars, Warp Flamers and Ratling Guns all weren't their own unit. Instead one of them could be attached to each unit of Clanrats.

    Imho both that and detachments could be included utilizing what those Azure Dragons in 3K. Some of them fight in melee whilst the others still shoot.
    Similarly Detachments or weapon teams could be imbedded into(weapon team)/simply be(detachment) the front rank and be shuffled into the back of the unit at the players command. Ideally they'd not be a variant of the unit but applied to it as an upgrade, similar to say scrap.
  • Secuter#4520Secuter#4520 Senior Member Denmark, Aarhus.Registered Users Posts: 2,386
    Can somebody tell me what this "detachment" is? I'm not that knowledgeable about the tabletop.


    About the shield wall: I don't think they are going to implement shield walls as you've seen them in previous games. But I'd be open for a unit ability which just provides defensive and missile resistance modifiers at the cost of speed and charge bonus.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    Secuter said:

    Can somebody tell me what this "detachment" is? I'm not that knowledgeable about the tabletop.



    Essentially you had two interlinked units that could support each other in some ways. With the main "regimental" unit which provided leadership and the supporting "detachment" which provided some additional defensive or supportive options.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,278
    Rob18446 said:

    Detachments is easy, as it's pretty much identical to Ying Yang, but that probably the reason why they wont add it in as well, ASF was replaced with Martial Prowess so no need for that, Shieldwall could be cool though, a buff to melee defence when bracing maybe?

    Martial and Murderous Prowess were also separate rules in the TT. They were unique to the various elven factions, while ASF was a rule for all elves.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,684
    Crossil said:

    Secuter said:

    Can somebody tell me what this "detachment" is? I'm not that knowledgeable about the tabletop.



    Essentially you had two interlinked units that could support each other in some ways. With the main "regimental" unit which provided leadership and the supporting "detachment" which provided some additional defensive or supportive options.
    To that you could add that detachments were small (up to 50% of the regimental unit, described in the army book excerpt you posted) and tended to be low tier stuff such as Crossbowmen or Free Company. The regimental units however were pretty much all state troops (Spearmen, Swordsmen, Halberdiers, Crossbowmen, Handgunners. Can't remember if it was Greatswords too).
  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 1,572
    Elves' AsF rule is pretty much represented by the fact that their MD is about 10 points higher than it otherwise should be. This is at least true for all of their characters. The main line units are bit more complicated because some units' stats actually work pretty well with this idea, while some units, like spearmen, aren't as strong as even their base TT stats would suggest.
    "Daemons are abroad again, and the servants of the foul gods march south with the storm at their backs. But as the winds of magic stir, other powers rise to contest it.
    I have seen the Lady, my brothers. She came to me from the waters and told me of the trials to come. This is why I call you here, so that Her summons may be answered. I call Errantry, a crusade to strike at the heart of the new darkness"


    -- The Lionhearted
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