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Warhammer 3 Difficulty: Will CA rework it?

AtomicGandhiAtomicGandhi Registered Users Posts: 36
As Zerkovich has said, most veteran players (myself included) settle at normal or Hard Battle difficulty even if they have the 'skill' to beat legendary, because the higher difficulty modifiers ruin the game balance and ultimately do not actually make the game harder, it just makes you use more elite Ranged/Single Entity Doomstacks.

Will Warhammer III have a reworked difficulty system? I certainly hope it does, it sorely needs it.

I'm not asking for magical AI improvements, but CA should change the way the AI is buffed.

A quick TL:DR of what Difficulty does:

1. On Harder Battle Difficulties, the AI gets:

2. +10 Morale, which is enough to bump most units up a Tier alone

3. 15% to all 3 melee stats: Attack, Defense, and Damage, which all adds up to a very dangerous buff package.

This compounds also with Free Veterancy from Camapign Difficulty, which turns AI melee units into absolute monsters (except against ranged units, artillery, and spells).

1. On Harder Campaign Difficulties, they also get:

2. free Veterancy per turn, which further ups their melee stats (Triple Gold Chevron legendary melee units will basically wreck player infantry no matter what)

3. high replenishment, which helps their infantry trade even better,

4. player replenishment is lowered on high campaign difficulty, making melee units even less viable due to harder casualty replacement.

5. Player upkeep is massively nerfed per army (+15% upkeep per Lord), hard-incentivising Elite Player armies that must be able to win without taking casualties against the AI horde of Hyper-Elite Melee infantry.

All of these compound together and create an environment where the only reasonable option is to ignore infantry entirely and use other units, such as Ranged Units, certain Cavalry (basically just Brettonian Cav), and Singe Entity Units (monsters and Heroes), and use Lightning strike to kill multiple stacks a turn in a series of samey Ranged-Spam battles.

TL:DR CA pls fix the difficulty settings.

Comments

  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237
    I don't really agree on all you wrote, but be sure that CA is aware of all those issues, and probably even more "subtle" ones. The issue is that they don't seem to want to improve the system if not on the surface.


    They said they'll nerf battle difficulty. Doubt they'll implement different AI tiers, even if it wouldn't be a hard job.
    Campaign difficulty will likely be the same; at best they'll nerf the AI replenishment/attrition damage cheats since they're the most problematic one.
    Probably supply lines will be reworked in some way since that's also something people hate, though don't be surprised if it's just a simple reduction (like, from 15% on L to 12%).

    To conclude, unit balance will likely still be a joke (i have no objective proof of this, but i reached this conclusion because, if CA actually changed it, they would've already shared it, since that's something a lot of people care about), so don't expect melee infantry (of a certain kind) to magically perform on the same level of most ranged infantry or monsters (on N battle diff).
  • tenspeedtenspeed Registered Users Posts: 4
    They have mentioned toning down the buffs to melee units however we probably have to wait until they decide to release the real campaign details to get more info unfortunately.
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 658
    edited November 2021
    It is honestly absurd that VH battle difficulty just boils down to "these unit types aren't viable anymore, good luck", like who came up with this garbage system. Why do they hate infantry and cav so much?
  • Nitros14#7973Nitros14#7973 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,896
    edited November 2021
    Making the AI smarter on higher difficulties would be nice.

    Re-implement the stuff that was tactically wise but made people 'frustrated'. Like when they made the AI stop marching away on the campaign map when it was obviously going to lose and started having it occasionally march into attack range.

    Probably force it to only attack heroes and single entities with one unit at a time on higher difficulties as well to avoid blobbing.

    And have it run past heroes to attack the ranged units behind them.
  • Pero87Pero87 Registered Users Posts: 11
    How about giving AI unlimited ammo and removin stat buffs. Forcing you to always engage and not using cheap cheese tactics of depleting their ammo. And maybe giving AI 10% more range. Small increase of speed to AI mele infantry so they try to outflank you. Making flanking the players units a real threat, increaseing AI damage only when they flank. I think that the player should be punished for making mistakes but allowing to have an even challenge whey playing smart. By that i mean countering and flanking the AI and not corner camping or some other cheese tactics. This would of course apply on harder battle difficulty. Maybe its stupid, im only brainstorming.
  • ValzaanValzaan Registered Users Posts: 79
    Pero87 said:

    How about giving AI unlimited ammo and removin stat buffs. Forcing you to always engage and not using cheap cheese tactics of depleting their ammo. And maybe giving AI 10% more range. Small increase of speed to AI mele infantry so they try to outflank you. Making flanking the players units a real threat, increaseing AI damage only when they flank. I think that the player should be punished for making mistakes but allowing to have an even challenge whey playing smart. By that i mean countering and flanking the AI and not corner camping or some other cheese tactics. This would of course apply on harder battle difficulty. Maybe its stupid, im only brainstorming.

    I like these suggestions.
    All that is gold does not glitter - Bilbo Baggins
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237
    Pero87 said:

    How about giving AI unlimited ammo and removin stat buffs. Forcing you to always engage and not using cheap cheese tactics of depleting their ammo. And maybe giving AI 10% more range. Small increase of speed to AI mele infantry so they try to outflank you. Making flanking the players units a real threat, increaseing AI damage only when they flank. I think that the player should be punished for making mistakes but allowing to have an even challenge whey playing smart. By that i mean countering and flanking the AI and not corner camping or some other cheese tactics. This would of course apply on harder battle difficulty. Maybe its stupid, im only brainstorming.

    Please no.
    Range and speed are, together with resistances, the stats with the highest power increase (calculated with deltas) in the game: buffing them globally, even if the AI is the AI, will make battles way harder to fight. It will actually make abusing whatever mistake makes the AI relatively more powerful (relatively because your units will be inferior to the AI's).

    Then the infinite ammo. There are two issues heavy melee infantry suffer from in CP: 1) due to how they work they have an insanely low dmg dealt over entities lost ratio, and 2) their lack of speed makes both running "slightly faster" ranged infantry and charging againsts missile heavy armies a nightmare. Now, if you have enough bodies you can close an eye on the N°2, but if the enemy has infinite ammo the might as well make a 19 chosen vs 3 ellyrian reaver archers impossible (or at least, impossible without abusing the stupidity of the AI and skirmish mode and pushing the unit to a corner of the map).

    Trust me, enconomy cheats are way better.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237
    Mooncake said:

    It is honestly absurd that VH battle difficulty just boils down to "these unit types aren't viable anymore, good luck", like who came up with this garbage system. Why do they hate infantry and cav so much?

    Cav and infantry are not bad "because someone hates them". They're bad because they've been balanced (cav and infantry) and designed (heavy infantry) for PvP 1 time battles.
    The battle difficulty and exp cheats are but salt to the wound, and you can easily see this because if you fight on Normal against (for example) a late game Skaven army with a greatsword spam (even one with good heroes and good lord, but still be greatsword spam), the greatsword spam will loose hard unless you manage to do some miracles with a spellcaster.
  • whatever14whatever14 Registered Users Posts: 464
    the real problem is army wide buffs for players that can only be countered by ai battle buffs that in return make so many units pointless.

    it's a fundamental design problem that ca refuses to change because players love seeing their crazy buffs.

  • Pero87Pero87 Registered Users Posts: 11
    elkapp said:

    Pero87 said:

    How about giving AI unlimited ammo and removin stat buffs. Forcing you to always engage and not using cheap cheese tactics of depleting their ammo. And maybe giving AI 10% more range. Small increase of speed to AI mele infantry so they try to outflank you. Making flanking the players units a real threat, increaseing AI damage only when they flank. I think that the player should be punished for making mistakes but allowing to have an even challenge whey playing smart. By that i mean countering and flanking the AI and not corner camping or some other cheese tactics. This would of course apply on harder battle difficulty. Maybe its stupid, im only brainstorming.

    Please no.
    Range and speed are, together with resistances, the stats with the highest power increase (calculated with deltas) in the game: buffing them globally, even if the AI is the AI, will make battles way harder to fight. It will actually make abusing whatever mistake makes the AI relatively more powerful (relatively because your units will be inferior to the AI's).

    Then the infinite ammo. There are two issues heavy melee infantry suffer from in CP: 1) due to how they work they have an insanely low dmg dealt over entities lost ratio, and 2) their lack of speed makes both running "slightly faster" ranged infantry and charging againsts missile heavy armies a nightmare. Now, if you have enough bodies you can close an eye on the N°2, but if the enemy has infinite ammo the might as well make a 19 chosen vs 3 ellyrian reaver archers impossible (or at least, impossible without abusing the stupidity of the AI and skirmish mode and pushing the unit to a corner of the map).

    Trust me, enconomy cheats are way better.
    Well, this is ment for harder battle difficulty, its ment to challenge you. I just think that the challenge should be in positioning, and strategy and not in attack, defence and morale stats. Once the fighting beggins it should be fair, giving you a chance with your mele units. As you pointed missile cavalry shouldnt be getting above mentioned buffs, that wouldn be hard and frustrating.
  • Pero87Pero87 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Or why not make when starting new campaingn you have for battle difficulty 5 options ( easy, normal, hard, hardest and custom) when you choose custom it give you options like changing stats for SEM, or giving AI mele infantry 10% speed, giving missile infantry 10%. Giving monster infantry 10% mele defence and so on. To choose any unit category and changing their stats to your liking in precentage. I mean you dont have to. You can chose one of the presets or choose as you like.
  • Processing#6286Processing#6286 Czech Republic Registered Users Posts: 812
    Pero87 said:

    How about giving AI unlimited ammo and removin stat buffs. Forcing you to always engage and not using cheap cheese tactics of depleting their ammo. And maybe giving AI 10% more range. Small increase of speed to AI mele infantry so they try to outflank you. Making flanking the players units a real threat, increaseing AI damage only when they flank. I think that the player should be punished for making mistakes but allowing to have an even challenge whey playing smart. By that i mean countering and flanking the AI and not corner camping or some other cheese tactics. This would of course apply on harder battle difficulty. Maybe its stupid, im only brainstorming.

    How would you exactly beat skirmishers then? Yesterday, I was playing Ungrim and full Slayer army (it's thematic). I was fighting Skaven and after all their melee infantry and monsters were gone, only gutter runners remained.

    I put my forces in the forest so AI hit some trees and damage my slayers less and then after they ran out of ammo they had to fight me in melee.

    I could have wasted their ammo with lord, but that's chessing. Instead I used a legit tactic of using trees to hide behind, and that wouldn't be possible if they had unlimited ammo.

    TLDR: Unlimited ammo is god-awful idea.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 807
    1+

    Hopefully the AI will be drastically improved because W2 is so unbalanced and easy to exploit.

    The way it is now the player is forced to play a certain way on a higher difficulty that it takes out a lot of the fun.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,237
    Pero87 said:

    Or why not make when starting new campaingn you have for battle difficulty 5 options ( easy, normal, hard, hardest and custom) when you choose custom it give you options like changing stats for SEM, or giving AI mele infantry 10% speed, giving missile infantry 10%. Giving monster infantry 10% mele defence and so on. To choose any unit category and changing their stats to your liking in precentage. I mean you dont have to. You can chose one of the presets or choose as you like.

    Yeah, a custom option would definitely be great.
  • SusaVile#9835SusaVile#9835 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,430
    I agree and disagree.

    I agree that I would prefer a more efficient AI in terms of difficulty. One that would level up its lords and heroes more effectively, buffing the troops they are carrying instead of having random redline skills for hounds and... no hounds in the army.

    I disagree in terms of infantry being useless. It is not. Could be reworked and have a different approach, for sure, but far from useless.

    In terms of unit buffs for the AI, they are not really that game breaking? This always existed in previous TW games; it was less pronounced because of weather and high ground buffs being far more effective (specially soaking up arrows, in Rome 1 and Medieval 2, you would lose nothing meaningful on a hill). That meant just a different way of playing.

    Now, you get far more than those buffs just by using redline skills and research. So you end up having much better stats overall for your infantry units.

    If you then consider all the top infantry for any given faction, you end up having like 3 or 4 factions that have considerable weaker infantry... and that is even lorewise acceptable. Like Brettonia, Skaven, Vampire Coast, that sort of thing. And even them can field infantry just fine, in combined armies and balanced ones.

    The biggest difference I could see in terms of the higher difficulty for infantry is in the early game. After a certain point, you have experience, research, and redline buffs in your troops that more than compensate for that.

    The notion that infantry is useless is because they get in melee. They will take casualties to do casualties. Unlike missile units who can stay out of range, and even cycle charging ones who can max out damage done vs taken.

    So my issue is that, even if CA would approach the infantry difficulty and remove all buffs? Players would not use infantry and would complain. Because that is not their style of play, or what they want to do. For those that, like me, use infantry, there are ways to do it with ANY faction, done in every campaign so far without an issue.
    Always learning, be polite, unless he's the enemy:P
    Cheers
    SusaVile
    Total war youtuber
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