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Roster Comparison Chart (from reddit)

24

Comments

  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 4,737
    edited November 2021
    I remember getting laughed at when I said monos won't share the same types of WoC units for greater asymmetry. Looks true so far, with Khorne getting warriors, Tzeentch knights, Slaanesh marauders and Nurgle none.

    I think this is something that will hold true in the future as well, e.g. Tzeentch and Slaanesh warriors won't be a part of mono rosters as respective factions are not designed to have heavy infantry (but they will be part of WoC).

  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,970
    Poor Changer of the ways. At least all of the Nurgle and Khorne specific units got new skins/models instead of just blue

    #JusticeforTzeentch
    #Thechangewedeserve

  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 2,339
    Thanks for the chart.
    I would tweak it a bit
    -get a new category for Monstrous infantry
    -count weapon variants as one not several units.
    But it's a good start
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,498
    This makes me think that Monos will get way more LPs than Cathay and Kislev.

    The DLC potential of Nurgle is freakin insane.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • kevManiackevManiac Registered Users Posts: 973

    So it's pretty clear that Cathay, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms are the major cores.

    Ah yes, Kislev and Cathay have 1 extra LL, and one extra unit w.r.t. Khorne. Clearly they are major and Khorne is minor... /s
    Races I'd like to see, in order of preference: Chaos Dwarfs, Southern Realm/ DoW, Nippon, Hobgoblin Kharnate, Kuresh, Ind.

    #JusticeForTzeentch.
  • orpusristoorpusristo Registered Users Posts: 120
    xDEMOSx said:

    All lists to a lesser or greater degree had more reuses than usual for game2 core races.

    even as human races, don't forget that half the kislev list is the same bear carrying something different in a different color.
    The idea of ​​making 6 races instead of 4 was detrimental to all of them.

    But on mono lists like things are even worse.

    Ogres as a pre-order instead of RP also gets in the way, we don't know when these guys will be complete, if w
    one day will be complete.(remenber 3k, as CA words are worth the same as nothing )

    All in all I don't know if this third game was a good deal, 6 races instead of 4 but those being all just a beta.

    I think about the new players they will surely say that this is a pay to win game when the first dlc`s come and will be quite right that these basic elements are largely insufficient.

    Pay to win how?
    You can't play vs people who are using dlc content you don't have.
    So again, pay to win how?
  • kratostatickratostatic Registered Users Posts: 952

    xDEMOSx said:

    All lists to a lesser or greater degree had more reuses than usual for game2 core races.

    even as human races, don't forget that half the kislev list is the same bear carrying something different in a different color.
    The idea of ​​making 6 races instead of 4 was detrimental to all of them.

    But on mono lists like things are even worse.

    Ogres as a pre-order instead of RP also gets in the way, we don't know when these guys will be complete, if w
    one day will be complete.(remenber 3k, as CA words are worth the same as nothing )

    All in all I don't know if this third game was a good deal, 6 races instead of 4 but those being all just a beta.

    I think about the new players they will surely say that this is a pay to win game when the first dlc`s come and will be quite right that these basic elements are largely insufficient.

    Pay to win how?
    You can't play vs people who are using dlc content you don't have.
    So again, pay to win how?
    You can in multiplayer surely? Not that that makes a huge difference in the grand scheme.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620
    kevManiac said:

    So it's pretty clear that Cathay, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms are the major cores.

    Ah yes, Kislev and Cathay have 1 extra LL, and one extra unit w.r.t. Khorne. Clearly they are major and Khorne is minor... /s
    You mean 6 extra units. And they were the focus of the two most major trailers and advertising weeks.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,787

    xDEMOSx said:

    All lists to a lesser or greater degree had more reuses than usual for game2 core races.

    even as human races, don't forget that half the kislev list is the same bear carrying something different in a different color.
    The idea of ​​making 6 races instead of 4 was detrimental to all of them.

    But on mono lists like things are even worse.

    Ogres as a pre-order instead of RP also gets in the way, we don't know when these guys will be complete, if w
    one day will be complete.(remenber 3k, as CA words are worth the same as nothing )

    All in all I don't know if this third game was a good deal, 6 races instead of 4 but those being all just a beta.

    I think about the new players they will surely say that this is a pay to win game when the first dlc`s come and will be quite right that these basic elements are largely insufficient.

    Pay to win how?
    You can't play vs people who are using dlc content you don't have.
    So again, pay to win how?
    You absolutely can play against both the AI and human players on the ladder, facing against units and Races that you do not own.

    There has been a long, consistent trend of DLC units/Races being OP or broken with a 'bug' that invariably increases their performance on launch. It's never a 'bug' that hurts the unit. Always a 'bug' that makes them dramatically more cost effective than they should be.

    This is not a coincidence. The OP stats and/or the 'bugginess' does help cultivate a 'Pay-to-Win' environment.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,216

    I remember getting laughed at when I said monos won't share the same types of WoC units for greater asymmetry. Looks true so far, with Khorne getting warriors, Tzeentch knights, Slaanesh marauders and Nurgle none.

    I think this is something that will hold true in the future as well, e.g. Tzeentch and Slaanesh warriors won't be a part of mono rosters as respective factions are not designed to have heavy infantry (but they will be part of WoC).

    Except both Tzeentch and Nurgle have Forsaken and all 4 have Spawns, so much for your theory.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,216

    kevManiac said:

    So it's pretty clear that Cathay, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms are the major cores.

    Ah yes, Kislev and Cathay have 1 extra LL, and one extra unit w.r.t. Khorne. Clearly they are major and Khorne is minor... /s
    You mean 6 extra units. And they were the focus of the two most major trailers and advertising weeks.
    Cathay and Kislev only have 2 more units than Khorne, the chart is very clear.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,217
    Ogres have been released pretty much complete. They may (and probably will) get 1 DLC and maybe an FLC at some point; but that is it.

    The other 6 however have their lord packs pretty much all-ready laid out plain to see. My only hope is that Tzeentch Knights/Doom Riders can have their models updated when Tzeentch gets it's dlc.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620

    kevManiac said:

    So it's pretty clear that Cathay, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms are the major cores.

    Ah yes, Kislev and Cathay have 1 extra LL, and one extra unit w.r.t. Khorne. Clearly they are major and Khorne is minor... /s
    You mean 6 extra units. And they were the focus of the two most major trailers and advertising weeks.
    Cathay and Kislev only have 2 more units than Khorne, the chart is very clear.
    And 6 more than Tzeentch and Nurgle. Based on the median (the only fair measure) difference Cathay and Kislev have 6 more.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620

    Ogres have been released pretty much complete. They may (and probably will) get 1 DLC and maybe an FLC at some point; but that is it.

    The other 6 however have their lord packs pretty much all-ready laid out plain to see. My only hope is that Tzeentch Knights/Doom Riders can have their models updated when Tzeentch gets it's dlc.

    There's zero reason they can't, or shouldn't get 2 LPs.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 1,982
    edited November 2021
    Looks like they have future dlc maped out, I don't think anyone can deny that at this point.

    would have been nice to get bigger rosters for Doc with less reskins and more newly created inspired units, but it is what it is.

    From a money making stand point it makes sense.




  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,217
    edited November 2021

    Ogres have been released pretty much complete. They may (and probably will) get 1 DLC and maybe an FLC at some point; but that is it.

    The other 6 however have their lord packs pretty much all-ready laid out plain to see. My only hope is that Tzeentch Knights/Doom Riders can have their models updated when Tzeentch gets it's dlc.

    There's zero reason they can't, or shouldn't get 2 LPs.
    The fact that DLC for DLC (while possible now) is rare; and comes much later then initial release. Theres 6 other races that demand attention and 15 prior races wanting core packs. There isn't time; and CA have clearly left a single DLC sized hole in the Ogre army list.

    WoC nor Norsca have received Lord packs; and they deserve / need them much more.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620

    Ogres have been released pretty much complete. They may (and probably will) get 1 DLC and maybe an FLC at some point; but that is it.

    The other 6 however have their lord packs pretty much all-ready laid out plain to see. My only hope is that Tzeentch Knights/Doom Riders can have their models updated when Tzeentch gets it's dlc.

    There's zero reason they can't, or shouldn't get 2 LPs.
    The fact that DLC for DLC (while possible now) is rare; and comes much later then initial release. Theres 6 other races that demand attention and 15 prior races wanting core packs. There isn't time; and CA have clearly left a single DLC sized hole in the Ogre army list.

    WoC nor Norsca have received Lord packs; and they deserve / need them much more.
    Two of the last two Lord Packs included DLC for DLC. I wouldn't call that rare at all.

    Ogres have two lords that are absolutely purrrrfect for DLCs. Two big meaty DLC fillers. Yes yes.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073

    I remember getting laughed at when I said monos won't share the same types of WoC units for greater asymmetry. Looks true so far, with Khorne getting warriors, Tzeentch knights, Slaanesh marauders and Nurgle none.

    I think this is something that will hold true in the future as well, e.g. Tzeentch and Slaanesh warriors won't be a part of mono rosters as respective factions are not designed to have heavy infantry (but they will be part of WoC).

    Be careful using design and gameplay logic. The fragile "fans" can't take it.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620

    I remember getting laughed at when I said monos won't share the same types of WoC units for greater asymmetry. Looks true so far, with Khorne getting warriors, Tzeentch knights, Slaanesh marauders and Nurgle none.

    I think this is something that will hold true in the future as well, e.g. Tzeentch and Slaanesh warriors won't be a part of mono rosters as respective factions are not designed to have heavy infantry (but they will be part of WoC).

    Be careful using design and gameplay logic. The fragile "fans" can't take it.
    I want to quote who you quoted and say I think they're onto something and are probably right.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,067
    So people were expecting to get full roster of every race day 1 ?

    Of course it would lead to disappointement.
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,594
    xDEMOSx said:

    Worse than seeing an initial list with 14 units is to see that even with so little and still reused:
    -Recolored spawn for everyone.
    -Furys for everyone.
    -Soul grinder for everyone.
    -Forsaken for 3/4, but Khorne gets his red dogs in return.

    when we take this out of the equation we see how much CA mistreated the monos, these lists were made in the worst possible way, and still give shape to the game.

    And the mono haters still said the idea was absurd.lol

    You are proving that the idea was absurd. Those are almost unplayable rosters. The idea that they are "carrying the game is something that you have decided by yourself. The fact is those factions are going to be very boring for anyone that cares more about battles than campaign.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,594

    kevManiac said:

    So it's pretty clear that Cathay, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms are the major cores.

    Ah yes, Kislev and Cathay have 1 extra LL, and one extra unit w.r.t. Khorne. Clearly they are major and Khorne is minor... /s
    You mean 6 extra units. And they were the focus of the two most major trailers and advertising weeks.
    Cathay and Kislev only have 2 more units than Khorne, the chart is very clear.
    Recoloured spawns, recoloured hounds, recoloured chariot, furies, soul grinder.

    Yeah, "only 2 more units than Khorne".
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Registered Users Posts: 1,524
    Its the 3 variants of Warriors of Khorne infantry and 2 variants of Minotaurs of Khorne (not mentioning the gore beast chariot) that Khorne has more.
    If we hadnt cried out loud, Nurgle and Tzeentzch surely could have got more of the same.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,594
    edited November 2021
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Its the 3 variants of Warriors of Khorne infantry and 2 variants of Minotaurs of Khorne (not mentioning the gore beast chariot) that Khorne has more.
    If we hadnt cried out loud, Nurgle and Tzeentzch surely could have got more of the same.

    There is zero evidence pointing to our complaints being heard in any way.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,498
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Its the 3 variants of Warriors of Khorne infantry and 2 variants of Minotaurs of Khorne (not mentioning the gore beast chariot) that Khorne has more.
    If we hadnt cried out loud, Nurgle and Tzeentzch surely could have got more of the same.

    I rather get unique models as DLC than cheap recolours at launch which would forever remain cheap recolours.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • xDEMOSxxDEMOSx Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Pocman said:

    xDEMOSx said:

    Worse than seeing an initial list with 14 units is to see that even with so little and still reused:
    -Recolored spawn for everyone.
    -Furys for everyone.
    -Soul grinder for everyone.
    -Forsaken for 3/4, but Khorne gets his red dogs in return.

    when we take this out of the equation we see how much CA mistreated the monos, these lists were made in the worst possible way, and still give shape to the game.

    And the mono haters still said the idea was absurd.lol

    You are proving that the idea was absurd. Those are almost unplayable rosters. The idea that they are "carrying the game is something that you have decided by yourself. The fact is those factions are going to be very boring for anyone that cares more about battles than campaign.
    I'm proving the idea is absolutely good.

    The game even full of problems still managed to get the public's attention.

    even with the lists being precarious.
    If monogods had the right budget they would be amazing.
    And that's the main point, it didn't have the necessary budget, CA made the worst possible implementation of monogods and it still worked.

    Accept reality, make mistakes is human, but commitment to error does not.


  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 2,024

    I want to quote who you quoted and say I think they're onto something and are probably right.

    Maybe. To a degree.

    But the main reason Khorne got Warriors was probably that the Skullcrusher asset existed.

    The main reason Slaanesh got Marauders was probably that the Hellstrider asset existed.

    And the main reason Tzeentch got Knights was probably... that otherwise they'd have twelve units.

    Forsaken fit thematically with Tzeentch, less so (IMO) with Nurgle. (As in, they're no more Nurglish than they are Khornate or Slaaneshi.) Hounds are very thematic for Khorne (and help tie down enemy missile units). Spawn, again, go well with Tzeentch but feel a bit like padding in the other rosters.

    Ultimately, I think if the division of godly WoC units was purely for gameplay reasons, we would have gotten unique Tzeentch Knights. As it is, it's re-use of assets to pad out the daemon quarters that, as a happy coincidence, help accentuate their narrow playstyles.
  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 4,737
    edited November 2021

    I remember getting laughed at when I said monos won't share the same types of WoC units for greater asymmetry. Looks true so far, with Khorne getting warriors, Tzeentch knights, Slaanesh marauders and Nurgle none.

    I think this is something that will hold true in the future as well, e.g. Tzeentch and Slaanesh warriors won't be a part of mono rosters as respective factions are not designed to have heavy infantry (but they will be part of WoC).

    Except both Tzeentch and Nurgle have Forsaken and all 4 have Spawns, so much for your theory.
    But why only two and not all 4 have forsaken then? Neither forsaken nor spawn change the respective roster playstyle like other units would. And it would be super easy to add recoloured knights to all 4 if they were ever intended to be there in the first place. But they're not. The asymmetry is obviously intentional.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,620
    xDEMOSx said:

    Pocman said:

    xDEMOSx said:

    Worse than seeing an initial list with 14 units is to see that even with so little and still reused:
    -Recolored spawn for everyone.
    -Furys for everyone.
    -Soul grinder for everyone.
    -Forsaken for 3/4, but Khorne gets his red dogs in return.

    when we take this out of the equation we see how much CA mistreated the monos, these lists were made in the worst possible way, and still give shape to the game.

    And the mono haters still said the idea was absurd.lol

    You are proving that the idea was absurd. Those are almost unplayable rosters. The idea that they are "carrying the game is something that you have decided by yourself. The fact is those factions are going to be very boring for anyone that cares more about battles than campaign.
    I'm proving the idea is absolutely good.

    The game even full of problems still managed to get the public's attention.

    even with the lists being precarious.
    If monogods had the right budget they would be amazing.
    And that's the main point, it didn't have the necessary budget, CA made the worst possible implementation of monogods and it still worked.

    Accept reality, make mistakes is human, but commitment to error does not.
    You're demonstrating how flawed the idea was. The fact that the game is still playable doesn't change how flawed they are. Now it is what it is and that's'all good, but there's no real grounds to say Monos were a success as a whole. Not yet at least. Certainly there's been no data suggesting they have been.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor

  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,498
    Nurgles Roster might be small but quality wise it’s by far the best so far. Nothing but centrepiece units.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
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