Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Do Wood Elves hard counter all daemon factions?

Otters007Otters007 Registered Users Posts: 1,303
Considering what we know of the daemon factions so far, and their strengths and weaknesses, I cannot help but think the Wood Elves are gonna have a field day against all of them.

Khorne- has hardly any range, has slow infantry (except bloodletters who hit hard but are a bit squishy), and slow monstrous cav. Given their prowess in melee, kiting Khorne seems to be the way to go, and none kite better then the wood elves.

Tzeentch- have powerful magic and great firepower, but it is short ranged. This means Wood Elves will likely be able to outshoot them. Admittedly, I would have thought Doom Knights could cause them some issues, but will that be enough?

Nurgle- Slow as hell unts. Kiting them will not only be effective, it would be EASY. They don't even have shields on any of their infantry.

Slaanesh- Super fast, so kiting them will be trickier. Yet, they have no flyers apart from furies, and no range. Hawk Rider spam with sisters of twilight will likely anihalate them. Plus, their infantry is super squishy and will likely fall apart to range firepower.

Wood Elves are already meta in multiplayer, and the addition of these 4 daemon factions may not do much to change that. Do you guys agree or disagree?

«1

Comments

  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 4,624
    Don't forget that Wood Elves have a lot of magic damage which counters daemon physical resistance in all 4 cases.

  • more-morewarpstonemore-morewarpstone Registered Users Posts: 265
    Khorne-Furies, War Hounds, and his Flesh Hounds will break apart kiting infantry, and the Furies might hunt the hawk riders

    Tzeentch: Doom Knights can keep the kiters away, and Tzeentch spells will punish anything that gets close, don't forget those artillery flying chariots

    Nurgle:Is screwed. Like really screwed

    Slaanesh: Very fast, but trouble with hawk riders, if those Slaanesh furies can't kill them

    Woodelves will likely mega hard counter Nurgle
  • GrimmShadoGrimmShado Registered Users Posts: 58
    For Khorne, warhounds can tie up any ranged infantry or skirmish cav until juggernauts or Bllodthirsters arrive. For everyone else, I think it comes down to how fast Furies are. Anyone can confirm if we know their stats? I think Slaanesh will struggle the hardest, as he doesn't seem to have a counter to Sisters/Warhawks.
  • ThomashuThomashu Registered Users Posts: 334
    edited November 2021
    I also wonder how Nurgle could properly fight against Wood Elves or an Ikit-style based army.

    The vanguard deployment of the Nurglings will play a key role, I reckon.
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,295
    I don't think Nurgle is as bad a people think against WE, you've got plenty of speed in your flying units and with some good dodging your can probably avoid a lot of their damage.
  • Pico0Pico0 Registered Users Posts: 264
    Just my 2 cents:

    Regarding the magic damage bypassing demonic physical dmg reduction, I think it is important to note that the most annoying units usually used to kite are waywatchers and they don't have magic damage. The other ones are glade riders with poison (but you have less dmg potential and less ammo than a infantry archer unit) deepwood scout swiftshiver shard (but low range so you can definitely get punished easier by cavalry) and glade guard with poison (no 360 fire so harder to kite with them).

    For the forest spirit/ melee part of the WE roster the units either rely on physical damage with low HP or high armor with high HP (but fire weakness) to survive. Almost all daemons deal magic armor piercing and fire damage so I'd say the WE will get demolished in any straight up melee

    IMHO Slaanesh roster seems to have crazy fast units with armor piercind + magic damage so if anything, they could be a hard counter against WE.

    Tzeentch seems to be more of a balanced match up (lots of flyers and shield will definitely help but fairly short range).

    Khorne will have to rely on bloodthirster/ cavalry and flesh hounds to engage fast enough.

    Nurgle will definitely have a hard time, you will probably have to use plague drones a lot to catch fast units.

    But yeah as a WE in MP it would seem really unwise to focus on melee against any of the DOC factions with all this magic damage on the daemon side.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 6,586
    Thomashu said:

    I also wonder how Nurgle could properly fight against Wood Elves or an Ikit-style based army.

    The vanguard deployment of the Nurglings will play a key role, I reckon.

    Don't forget that Nurgle also has 4 flying units and Ku'gath and the Soul Grinder are artillery, they aren't defenceless against WE.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 6,586
    Khorne has Furies, Skullcannons and 2 doggies, they have enough tools to deal with skirmisher armies.

    Tzeentch has Doom Knigths with 105 speed and vanguard deployment, Furies and Screamers, just the Doom Knigths alone will shred any archers the WE can field.

    Nurgle has a thick airforce with Furies and the 3 Rot Flies units, also, don't forget that Nurgle has both the Soul Grinder and Ku'Gath as artillery units, so they can deal a fair amount of damage at range themselves.

    With how fast Slaanesh units are, specially thekr cav, they won't have a problem getting into the WE backline.

    So no, they aren't hard countered, every MonoGod has tools to fight the WE.
  • taalisman01taalisman01 Registered Users Posts: 231
    Thomashu said:

    I also wonder how Nurgle could properly fight against Wood Elves or an Ikit-style based army.

    The vanguard deployment of the Nurglings will play a key role, I reckon.

    Maybe some plague that will greatly reduce speed/combat efficiency can be cast in combat.

    Also i expect the 4 chaos powers to have some sort of summons, so you might be able to tie down units with them.
  • Zeratul764Zeratul764 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJXjw--CZCzgYC3fwtoyJ0ARegistered Users Posts: 16
    edited November 2021
    I believe that there will be a faction that was not in 2 and 1 warhammer. If there are forest elves, what will happen to dls and other things? I hope there will be Boris the Cunning with his Ulric army, who will represent the empire in a new light.It is a unique empire without reference to the empire of Raikland
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,989
    lol no, actually demons hard counter wood elves, all four of them. Magical damage (all units, this is way too much), fast or tanky, crazy spells. I don't see archer factions being able to deal with demon, especially wood elves who have so much magical damage and physical resistance.
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 4,786
    Nurgle's entire point is that they're supposed to be beefy enough to survive the endless missiles while still approaching like an inevitable green flood
  • mm3791mm3791 Registered Users Posts: 19
    I mean, beastmen are really powerful and still struggle against wood elves. WE have lot of flying shooting and monsters, I use harpies and manticores to hunt down flyers and archers, great weapons against trees. I image daempns will have to use the same strategy, flying melee units to chase hawks and anti-large to take out dryads
  • peabodyestatepeabodyestate Registered Users Posts: 1,426
    Wood Elves, Beastmen, Grom, all due a massive nerf. Skaven seem to never get nerfed, but they could use one too.

    The thing is, they are the old new. Game 3 races will be the new new. The new new always beats the old new by ways of powercreep.

    In short, on that basis alone, i reckon Woodelves might be able to compete, but all game 3 armies will destroy any army that came before them.
  • AnnoyedOneEyedGuyAnnoyedOneEyedGuy Registered Users Posts: 2,209
    magic damage will reign supreme in game 3 especially against Daemons, wonder how hard it'll hit them
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 8,507
    MuH WoOdElVeS Op
    NErF PlOx!



    Nurgle is love

    Nurgle is life

    #JusticeForNurglingForumAvatars
  • HondlisHondlis Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,306
    It's safe to say most new 18 to 22 units rosters will struggle against current 30+ ones.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,982
    When I play Wood Elves as they are they seem to pretty much hard counter everything. 😂

    ò_ó
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,513
    Nurgle should get some range resistance, arrows and bullets should not easily kill those daemons who knows no pain, like those zombie movies
  • misunderstoodvampiremisunderstoodvampire Registered Users Posts: 1,199
    Wood Elves should struggle against Khorne and Tzeentch but should do well vs Nurgle. Probably be even vs Slaanesh
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,411
    Can’t see Nurgle having a huge problem with 400 range projectiles, flying units, excellent magic, probably tough against projectiles to Blanche their lack of speed.

    Don’t think we will know this until we get to grips with the game.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,387
    edited November 2021
    Eh, the Wood Elves can get out shot, and out ran primarily by many of the existing Races. It was only recently that they gained the cavalry power needed to properly 'screen' themselves from high mobility rush builds. And even then, Wood Elves do struggle against Greenskin and Lizardmen rushes for example, which Chaos might be able to imitate.

    Specifically:

    Tzeentch seems capable of out shooting them.

    Many seem capable of out running them if they focused their flyers.

    Slaanesh is one who seems specifically primed to rush backlines and tackle skirmishers.

    It's obviously impossible to be certain. But I don't see Wood Elves being as impervious as the OP claims.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,515
    VS Ai
    I think yes except Slashneh because they have Charriot and wood elf hate fighting with Charriot , even now every faction just lose against them.

    Multiplayer
    No , except for Nurgle , because Nurgle are slow and lack of range unit . however if Nurgle can spawn alot of Nugling they might have chance .
  • JastalllJastalll Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,492
    Eeeeh, not all of them. They probably give Tzeentch the hardest time because they can basically out-kite him in most situations, and can probably beat him down in melee if it comes to that as well. Tzeentch's potent magic is also least effective against a multitude of units that are spread out, as opposed to blobbed infantry. His literal only good tool against them is the Doom Knights and they can't be expected to carry entire games on their backs.

    Nurgle may have a bit of a hard time catching them but his 90 speed Rot Flies will help and he's got soooo much HP and regen that they can't directly counter, having little in the way of fire damage. Running out of ammo while there's still loads of stinky daemons to kill might become a real problem, plus he has artillery just like Khorne who also has fast ground units and a flying goon sqaud, both of which are useful vs WEs. Slaanesh is still up in the air depending on roster, magic and special abilities but very high speed is certainly not a bad thing against the Asrai.


    Na, if one faction seems to be good against every Daemon it's the High Elves. Plenty of fire resistance on their heaviest hitters to laugh at Khorne's own heaviest hitters. Easy access to fire damage making papa Nurgle sad on top of overwhelming ranged firepower. Out-ranging Tzeentch while not having much worse magic than him and better melee potential. Again Slaanesh might have the easiest time but the HEs aren't WEs, they aren't all that fragile and layers of spears and archers might bog down the shockingly low-armor troops of the Dark Prince and turn them to pincushion.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,765
    The weakness that even wood elves used to have like weak monsters,high end cav and elite infantry...etc

    Were all covered in their DLC's ,wood elves as roster have weakness that is low armor,but have multiple strengths

  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,434
    The thing with Nurgle is that all his units seem to have massive hp pools. If you go really wide with units vs WE you could actually just waste all their ammo and then grind the win in melee.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,515
    edited November 2021
    Pede said:

    The thing with Nurgle is that all his units seem to have massive hp pools. If you go really wide with units vs WE you could actually just waste all their ammo and then grind the win in melee.

    I think you forget that WE are meat grinder , their melee infantry are super effective vs anything . Wardancer / Spear dancer can sent every Chaos back to Chaos realm . WE are not just about range unit .

    WE lose to something with alot of mass and fast like Cavalry , knock them around or heavy range faction that can pull them from position .
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 933
    Don't forget that Tzeentch has that shield HP bar. I don't know how fast it replenishes, but that might be a hard counter to arrows if it replenishes fast enough.
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,434
    Pray said:

    Pede said:

    The thing with Nurgle is that all his units seem to have massive hp pools. If you go really wide with units vs WE you could actually just waste all their ammo and then grind the win in melee.

    I think you forget that WE are meat grinder , their melee infantry are super effective vs anything . Wardancer / Spear dancer can sent every Chaos back to Chaos realm . WE are not just about range unit .

    WE lose to something with alot of mass and fast like Cavalry , knock them around or heavy range faction that can pull them from position .
    I disagree. WE are AP glass cannons in melee with low armor.
    Nurgle is high HP/MD, high dmg and low AP. In fact i think Nurgle will do great against WE. They also have fast tanky flyers and poison gallore to help them out.
  • afverrallafverrall Registered Users Posts: 660
    Bladesingers are also a top tier melee unit with magic attacks and will quickly cut through daemonic infantry.
Sign In or Register to comment.