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WH3 will have a DLC problem

AxseneaAxsenea Registered Users Posts: 7
Or, alternatively, people will have an expectation problem.

Ok, so, here comes what I believe will be quite the controversial topic, and I'm gonna be a party-pooper, but let's look at things purely from a number side.

WH3 comes with 6 races, and 8 LLs (not counting the 9th LL who seems to be a wildcard, and probably not directly affiliated to any of the starting races). Let's assume, at first, a conservative goal : 4 LLs for every WH3 starting race. That's 24 LLs, or 16 more than at release.

Every LP comes with 3 LLs, and CP come with one extra FLC. We're already at 5 LPs and one CP FLC just to reach that goal.

Now, of course, there's other races too. Ogres, for one, need 2 more LLs and they've got a bit dlc-sized chunk of their roster missing. Norsca have been singled out by CA as needing love, and they also only have 2 LLs now. Furthermore, we know Skaven are getting Thanquol. That's 5 LLs more.

And that's where the problem arises. Who else gets in ? HE, Empire, Dwarfs, Vampires, Greenskins and WoC could all realistically get a LL, optimally through a LP because they have still enough units missing that it matters. But if all those previously mentioned races gets some love, one way or another, that's 27 lords that need to be added. Tomb Kings have only one generic lord, and they could use a touch-up. 28 lords.

That would requires 8 LPs, 3 CP FLCs and a Rakarth-like FLC. It's noticeably more than WH2 got, but it's still somewhat realistic. It'd take about 5 years, maybe 6 if CA goes back to 2 LP a year quickly.

But, we're not aiming for 4 LLs by WH3 core races, are we ? People are expecting at least 6 LLs for them ! That's 8 more lords, or 3 more LPs. And let's not mention people that want Empire to get a second DLC, or who hope for BM, Bretonnia or HE getting a FLC.

You see where I'm getting at. There's just no way this can be done. It'd take twice as many LPs as WH2 got, and upward to 7-8 years !

So, and that's my conclusion, there's only three possibilities about it :
  • WH3 core races ends up at 4 LLs, and other races gets a reasonable ammount of content
  • WH3 core races ends up at 6 LLs, and some races are gonna get passed on (Greenskins and Tomb Kings would be my guess).
  • CA makes a new type of DLC that isn't a 1v1 LP. Highly unprobable, but it do makes sense. 4 core races, 2-sided DLCs, 6 core races, 3-sided DLCs.
«13

Comments

  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 5,637
    CA will be forced to do things different if all the races from the trilogy are meant to be at roughly equal footing. That doesn't mean that the WE or TK need as many LLs as the LM of course, but the fact that the Empire, GS and VC could end up permanently behind the LM or Skaven would definitely be letdown for each of them. Personally I think the best way around this is to implement single race focused 'reinforcement packs' for those races that need work but don't have enough to squeeze out LP after LP, like they could do for the Empire for instance. Basically, it'd function as a campaign pack with a few new units and four new LLs (not including any FLC) and it'd be the best way to implement whatever's missing for some of those older races. For example, GS could get one with Gorfang Rotgut, Morglum Necksnapper, Snagla Grobspit and maybe a wildcard choice such as Grumlok & Gazbag, while the Warriors of Chaos could get one with Sayl the Faithless, Harald Hammerstorm, Count Mordrek the Damned and Vardek Crom. This leaves races like Norsca or the High Elves, each with very little to be added to be finished off with a single LP and maybe a FLC on the side.
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  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,916
    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,221

    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs

    So, ALL the core races from WH3 will recieve less DLCs on THEIR OWN GAME than the previous Cores on theirs, because reason.


    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
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  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 1,985

    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs

    I expect Cathay and Nurgle to end up at about 6 LLs. Kislev, Khorne, and Tzeentch... maybe 5. Slaanesh might end up with 4 LLs depending on whether or not Sigvald gets moved.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

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  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 6,414

    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs

    So, ALL the core races from WH3 will recieve less DLCs on THEIR OWN GAME than the previous Cores on theirs, because reason.


    Depends on the amount of material.
  • KoronusKoronus Registered Users Posts: 265
    I do not see the problem. Warhammer I and Warhammer where so far only test drives.
    Experiments to see in the live wilderness how thinks works and how not. Those games had only a short life cycle because they where intended to be over sooner or later. Warhammer III on the other hand is the masterpiece, the fullfilled ship that brings us on a jorney. Total Warhammer has as a series a deciding advantage that whas shown in Rome II too.
    It has a loyal longtime fanbase. A big chunk of Warhammer II customers came to stay and buy all the DLCs available.
    So if the fanbase stays like this, there will be no problem in keeping long time support. The DLC continue to keep comming as long as the people stay. And if this is long enough there will be maybe unique ideas too.
    So maybe we will later see Hobgoblins, Halflings and/or Gnobblars as a sole army too just because people buy so many DLCs and so they have money to experiment.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,221
    The problem with theorising about amount of future content, is that we don't know how long CA plans on supporting the game, WH2, even with WH3 on the way, lasted way longer than WH1, because they realized the formula to success with the DLC (unlike what happened in 3K), so it stands to reason that future support of the game will depend heavily on how well the DLC sell.

    On what I very much agree is on the fact that CA should really come up with new DLCs, because even if they support the game for many years to come, the pace at which races get new content would be glacial, even more with 7 new races at launch.
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  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,118
    edited January 15
    Axsenea said:

    You see where I'm getting at. There's just no way this can be done. It'd take twice as many LPs as WH2 got, and upward to 7-8 years !

    Can't be done?
    Let's say each TWW3 race gets 4 LLs. That's 24 LLs. Just four TWW3 vs TWW3 will already provide half of that. Two CPs could come with 2 FLCs. Then if we get 7 more cross-game LPs with 3 FLCs being TWW3 lords, that's it.
    11 LPs, 2 CP. Just 4 DLCs more than TWW2 got.
  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 6,414
    That's why I doubt a second CP will be happening.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,221
    edited January 15
    JungleElf said:

    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs

    So, ALL the core races from WH3 will recieve less DLCs on THEIR OWN GAME than the previous Cores on theirs, because reason.


    Depends on the amount of material.
    The material for Cathay and Kislev comes straight from GW, they can come up with wathever they want and slap Old World on it to make it official.

    And for the MonoGods you have ET, Suplements like Tamurkhan and even more if GW adds AoS to Old World.

    There isn't any lack of material.



    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • HeresyHoundHeresyHound Registered Users Posts: 8,152
    Yeah some races WONT get as much love as others. It's just a thing we have to accept. As far as the core Game 3 races go, 2 LPs and 2 FLC each would bring us to 6 LLs for Cathay/Kislev and 5 for Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeentch which I think is reasonable. And depending on how fast we jump into crossover LPs that's between 6 to 12 old races getting content. Yeah that's a lot of LPs but CA keeps saying how they expect to support the game for years to come and as long as we don't have a half a year between DLCs it isn't too crazy

    @Wyvax I very much doubt they will ever do a DLC for an existing race that doesn't include another race. With the current LP set up they double the chance of people buying any particular LP. If someone doesn't like GS at all they have no reason to buy that DLC. With the current set up there's a chance they will like the 2nd race,, so they will buy the DLC even if they don't like GS. It's far more effective for CA to do the current vs setup for existing races.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 9,444

    I do think that cathay kislev and some of the mono gods will only get 1 or 2 lord packs

    I think its possible, unless CA really stretches out the mortal components for Monos into 2 packs.

    The sooner we get into cross game packs, the better.
    Glory matters not.

  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 1,404
    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 5,143
    edited January 15
    I’ve thought the same thing many times. If CA wants to add all the missing characters and not have it take 5+ years, then they will need to implement different types of DLC - character packs for example. Adding a bunch of lords without the units.

    There’s a workaround for everything but GW/CA will need to get out of their comfort zone here if they truly want every major character to be in the game and not have it take a decade.
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  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 1,286
    To start the LL that are lesser demons will be FLC (Masque Valentine day, Skulltaker Skull day, and the other two will accompany X DLC)
    Chaos Dwarfs will be accompanied by a FLC dwarf LL
    Undead Legions will be accompanied by Harald Hammerstorm as FLC LL
    Southern realms will be accompanied by Golgfag as FLC (for those with ogre kingdoms)
    Slaanesh vs. Khorne LP (Epidemius FLC)
    Nurgle vs Tzeentch LP (Sea Dragon of east FLC)
    Kislev vs Cathay LP (Blue Scribes FLC)

    Khaine vs Khorne LP
    Skaven vs Kislev LP (Bretonia FLC)
    Vampire Counts vs Kislev LP (Vampire FLC)
    Nurgle vs Empire LP (Empire FLC)
    Slannesh vs High Elfs LP
    Tomb Kings vs IDK
    Chaos Warriors vs IDK
  • MikobotMikobot Registered Users Posts: 301
    The DLC train will only end when CA stops making money, that's the most reasonable explanation we can have about future content and its quantity. If CA makes bank we'll get at least two CPs and lord packs in enough quantity to scrape the bottom of every race's barrel. If cash doesn't flow after the first few years the base races (not OK) will get to 5-6 LLs, we'll get one Empire DLC, one CP, maybe Norsca love, Thanq, and maybe VC love before CA throws us to the curb.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,677
    edited January 15
    Well, your math makes sense. I hope for a larger kind of DLC, myself.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    So long as people buy the dlc and CA profits they will keep making dlc . They will stop when the money starts to dry out
  • AxseneaAxsenea Registered Users Posts: 7
    SerPus said:

    Axsenea said:

    You see where I'm getting at. There's just no way this can be done. It'd take twice as many LPs as WH2 got, and upward to 7-8 years !

    Can't be done?
    Let's say each TWW3 race gets 4 LLs. That's 24 LLs. Just four TWW3 vs TWW3 will already provide half of that. Two CPs could come with 2 FLCs. Then if we get 7 more cross-game LPs with 3 FLCs being TWW3 lords, that's it.
    11 LPs, 2 CP. Just 4 DLCs more than TWW2 got.
    Well yes, we agree, it's feasible if WH3 races only get 4 LLs each !

    The "can't be done" part you're quoting is about WH3 getting 6 LLs each ! Which, in addition to the older races mentioned previously would makes something like 40-42 LLs needed, and that's 13 LP + 2 CP.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,118
    Axsenea said:

    The "can't be done" part you're quoting is about WH3 getting 6 LLs each !

    Each race getting 4 LLs would result in Kislev and Cathay having 6 LLs and Chaos races having 5.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,639
    This is why I expect the Major cores to get 3 Lord Pack halves or more and the minors to get 1-2.

    People expect masses of DLC. I don't think that's realistic.
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  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,639
    SerPus said:

    Axsenea said:

    You see where I'm getting at. There's just no way this can be done. It'd take twice as many LPs as WH2 got, and upward to 7-8 years !

    Can't be done?
    Let's say each TWW3 race gets 4 LLs. That's 24 LLs. Just four TWW3 vs TWW3 will already provide half of that. Two CPs could come with 2 FLCs. Then if we get 7 more cross-game LPs with 3 FLCs being TWW3 lords, that's it.
    11 LPs, 2 CP. Just 4 DLCs more than TWW2 got.
    There's zero chance of 4 TWW3 LPs. As is 3 is the maximum and if we're honest Mono vs Mono is a highly unappealing LP for everyone. Mono fans like myself included.

    My bet is on 2 game 3 LPs.
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  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 8,118
    edited January 15

    There's zero chance of 4 TWW3 LPs.

    Nah, there is always a chance. But I myself would [rpbably bet at 3 TWW3 only LPs.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,639
    SerPus said:

    There's zero chance of 4 TWW3 LPs.

    Nah, there is always a chance. But I myself would [rpbably bet at 3 TWW3 only LPs.
    Only in the sense that there's a chance for everything.
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  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 9,444
    Loreguy said:

    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).

    This is the way.
    Glory matters not.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 34,639
    Loreguy said:

    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).

    This is the way.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    #JusticeForCathay

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

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  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 8,240
    Axsenea said:

    But, we're not aiming for 4 LLs by WH3 core races, are we ? People are expecting at least 6 LLs for them ! That's 8 more lords, or 3 more LPs. And let's not mention people that want Empire to get a second DLC, or who hope for BM, Bretonnia or HE getting a FLC.

    You see where I'm getting at. There's just no way this can be done. It'd take twice as many LPs as WH2 got, and upward to 7-8 years !

    This is part of the reason they should have done more X-Game DLC in Game 2.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 9,954
    Loreguy said:

    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).

    So 2+ years before one of the monos sees a LP?

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 9,444
    Djau said:

    Loreguy said:

    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).

    So 2+ years before one of the monos sees a LP?
    What is it, 2 DLC + Campaign Pack every year? Or 2 DLC total?

    If so.

    Khorne + Game 1/Game 2 + Kislev FLC.
    Cathay + Game 1/Game 2 + Nurgle FLC.

    Campaign Pack (CDwarves) + Tzeentch FLC.
    Slaanesh + Game 1/Game 2 + Cathay FLC.

    Kislev + Game 1/Game 2 + Khorne FLC.
    Nurge + Game 1/Game 2 + Tzeentch FLC.

    Campaign Pack (DoW/TEB) + Slaanesh FLC.
    Tzeentch + Game 1/Game 2 + Bretonnia FLC

    Something like that, providing a total of.

    4 LL's for Cathay/Kislev, inside 3 years.
    3 LL's for Monos, inside 4 years.
    2 Campaign Packs, inside 4 years.
    7 Game 1/Game 2 updates, inside 4 years.

    Behold, greatness.
    Glory matters not.

  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 8,240
    Surge_2 said:

    Djau said:

    Loreguy said:

    Crossovers from the start. One race from third game one older. FLC from another third game race (and one for Brettonia).

    ~ 4-5 years and every core have 6 LL (or more).

    So 2+ years before one of the monos sees a LP?
    What is it, 2 DLC + Campaign Pack every year? Or 2 DLC total?

    If so.

    Khorne + Game 1/Game 2 + Kislev FLC.
    Cathay + Game 1/Game 2 + Nurgle FLC.

    Campaign Pack (CDwarves) + Tzeentch FLC.
    Slaanesh + Game 1/Game 2 + Cathay FLC.

    Kislev + Game 1/Game 2 + Khorne FLC.
    Nurge + Game 1/Game 2 + Tzeentch FLC.

    Campaign Pack (DoW/TEB) + Slaanesh FLC.
    Tzeentch + Game 1/Game 2 + Bretonnia FLC

    Something like that, providing a total of.

    4 LL's for Cathay/Kislev, inside 3 years.
    3 LL's for Monos, inside 4 years.
    2 Campaign Packs, inside 4 years.
    7 Game 1/Game 2 updates, inside 4 years.

    Behold, greatness.
    Yeah it will probably be something like that but I expect accelerated DLC in years 1 and 2.
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