Ninja nerfs already happening on old races

chebalis · March 1

I've found that goblins lost their silver shield on the unit enciclopedia or whatever is called in English

Arcani_4_Ever · March 1

Gobbos are OP, specially as Grom.

Also the role of Goblins is to be cannon fodder. Them getting Silver Shields made them way too survivable for such a garbage unit. It made them a key component of a Greenskin Strat

In fact CA has always favored the Gobbos, yet the Orcs have yet to get a Great Orc Shaman or Black Orc Warboss and the tech tree also favors Goblins over Orcs.

Ninaran · March 1

That interface for old races isn't too accurate. Ironbreakers went down in block chance in there as well and CA Duck confirmed that that isn't actually the case.

I'd take those info with a grain of salt until the races are in the game proper.

GreenColoured · March 1

I'd just wait when Mortal Empires 2.0 come out tbh before getting too worked up.

But if it's Goblins we're talking about...are nerfs really all that bad a thing? Those things are OP in campaign, especially for their cost.

Cosmic_Lich · March 1

Good.

MrDragon · March 1

Also some old factions have been getting buffs. Bastiladons with revivification come to mind. They got buffed big time.

Vanilla_Gorilla · March 1

Cosmic_Lich said:
Good.

They don't have a Bronze shield.

ArneSo · March 1

Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.

MrDragon · March 1

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.

Dwarfs should get those yeah, the best way to make them still viable once their angry cousins are added is to make them even tougher because they will need something to set them apart from a faction that has basically everything that they do + faster disposable auxiliary troops, better artillery, monsters, magic and cavalry.
Letting our classic dawi really double down on the defence seems only fair.

afverrall · March 1

They don't need gold shields. Dwarfs aren't invulnerable, and tbh their armour and MD is already over tuned.

Nazjax · March 1

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.

You guys know it's for balance purpose ? In campaign I dont mind an upgrade for that but in MP it's already hard to hit dwarfs with ranged unit with most factions if you don't have AP ranged units. And giving gold shield even AP one will be pretty useless.

MonochromaticSpider · March 1

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
You guys know it's for balance purpose ? In campaign I dont mind an upgrade for that but in MP it's already hard to hit dwarfs with ranged unit with most factions if you don't have AP ranged units. And giving gold shield even AP one will be pretty useless.

The dwarfs are barely faster than zombies so why is it necessary to shoot them from the front?

Pocman · March 1

MonochromaticSpider said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
You guys know it's for balance purpose ? In campaign I dont mind an upgrade for that but in MP it's already hard to hit dwarfs with ranged unit with most factions if you don't have AP ranged units. And giving gold shield even AP one will be pretty useless.

The dwarfs are barely faster than zombies so why is it necessary to shoot them from the front?

Because turning 180 takes basically the same time for a slow dwarf than a fast elf. And because boxes. And because dwarfs have one of the best ranged options in the game, so is not like you aren't getting shot while you try to flank.

MonochromaticSpider · March 1

Pocman said:

MonochromaticSpider said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
You guys know it's for balance purpose ? In campaign I dont mind an upgrade for that but in MP it's already hard to hit dwarfs with ranged unit with most factions if you don't have AP ranged units. And giving gold shield even AP one will be pretty useless.

The dwarfs are barely faster than zombies so why is it necessary to shoot them from the front?
Because turning 180 takes basically the same time for a slow dwarf than a fast elf. And because boxes. And because dwarfs have one of the best ranged options in the game, so is not like you aren't getting shot while you try to flank.

So kill the ranged option first, which isn't an ironbreaker, then hit ironbreakers from two angles so they'll have to turn their back on one.

Obviously, as a campaign player, I understand that MP balance is a totally different world from what I do. Smaller forces, more micro, actual reactions from the other side, et cetera. But I just don't get how a zombie-speed infantry becomes OP if it can't be shot to pieces from the front.

Zviko0 · March 1

Arcani_4_Ever said:
Gobbos are OP, specially as Grom.

Couldn't agree more. Focusing tech and Grom's skill tree on them as well and they can literally carry you till the end. Not surprised by the nerf to be honest.

Slugus · March 1

If the nerfs to old races on this map are "Ninja" then someone needs to hire some new ninja... surely first time you played and saw Empire doesn't even run any hellfire rocket batteries you'd realise old races have been nerfed hard as they're all non-threats.

Wait for immortal empires and see where things stand before worrying about the state of NPC races

mightygloin · March 1

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
You guys know it's for balance purpose ? In campaign I dont mind an upgrade for that but in MP it's already hard to hit dwarfs with ranged unit with most factions if you don't have AP ranged units. And giving gold shield even AP one will be pretty useless.

Sure you play MP often enough? Non AP missiles are still pretty effective against armor. HE for example often bring plenty of their cheapest archers against dwarfs. Even a few skeleton archers can do good damage against Ironbreakers not to mention the rest. Especially after vigor further nerfs the armor. Feel free to test if you dont know it already.

Also to the beginners; gold shields do not make you immune to the missiles because

- It's not 100% block
- You have to be facing missiles and block for it to work
- You can get flanked = no block
- Doesn't work in melee afaik

Hard to know sure since the game does not have a single gold shield but overtuned ranged.

GoldfishLord · March 1

MP and SP just need to have separate balancing. The MP community is much smaller than singleplayer and it doesn't make much sense for the singleplayer units to be balanced around a small contingent of the player base.

Asking for Dwarf infantry to be easier to shoot for balancing purposes is just unloreful.

OdTengri · March 1

NINJA NERFS ALREADY HAPPENING ON OLD RACES

More like broad balance changes are being made between Game 2 and Game 3

SneedGaming · March 1

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP

Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.

Neodeinos · March 1

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.

Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.

Lord_Distamorfin · March 1

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.

I would rather see shields be entirely rebalanced TBH. Ranged is already vastly OP with the amount of damage it can output against even heavily armored shielded units. Shield block chance should be increased across the board by at least 10%. Then the 1AP minimum lets even garbage archers do way more damage than they should against units like Chosen.

ArneSo · March 1

MrDragon said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
Dwarfs should get those yeah, the best way to make them still viable once their angry cousins are added is to make them even tougher because they will need something to set them apart from a faction that has basically everything that they do + faster disposable auxiliary troops, better artillery, monsters, magic and cavalry.
Letting our classic dawi really double down on the defence seems only fair.

Tbh the only way to really balance Chaos Dwarfs is to give them a manpower system or caps for their chaos dwarf units.

SneedGaming · March 1

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.

Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.

Neodeinos · March 1

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.

I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.

SneedGaming · March 1

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.
I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.

Someone at CA caves in to the demands of the multiplayer cabal and ruins singleplayer balance in order to please the <1% of players who regularly play that garbage. And it's terrible for the longevity of the game, so no actually, they shouldn't.

Neodeinos · March 1

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.
I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.
Someone at CA caves in to the demands of the multiplayer cabal and ruins singleplayer balance in order to please the <1% of players who regularly play that garbage. And it's terrible for the longevity of the game, so no actually, they shouldn't.</p>

CA balances the game for both the MP and SP communities, they do nerf some units because of the MP sometimes but the problem is not that they are balancing the game for it, the problem is that sometimes CA overnerfs something.

Let's take a look at the Ancient Sally for instance, no one **** asked for a nerf of this unit and yet it took the nerfhammer, both SP and MP people are still **** about that one so if you want to blame someone, blame CA. CA is the problem not the MP dudes because they overnerf something and then ignore all feedback about it.

Warfield · March 1

This again… well, good!

Goblins should have crappy shields and dwarfs should have the best shields. Period.

SneedGaming · March 1

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.
I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.
Someone at CA caves in to the demands of the multiplayer cabal and ruins singleplayer balance in order to please the <1% of players who regularly play that garbage. And it's terrible for the longevity of the game, so no actually, they shouldn't.</p>
CA balances the game for both the MP and SP communities

And they shouldn't be doing that. Because multiplayer balance is irrelevant. And when we discuss multiplayer balance it is generally understood that we mean competitive PvP. Since coop and head to head campaigns use the same balance as singleplayer.

It's fine for CA to support a tacked on multiplayer PvP mode, and it's fine to be a fan of it, but nothing should be changed in the actual game to appease the tiny minority that regularly plays it.

Adjusting stats for the sake of "MP balance" is nonsensical, even if we were to pretend that MP is relevant, since MP units are already balanced by cost. If something is overperforming then you increase its cost. If something is underperforming then you decrease its cost. There is no reason to ruin things for the 99% when you could literally just change the cost of the unit (or spell, or whatever else) in that mode.

Neodeinos · March 1

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.
I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.
Someone at CA caves in to the demands of the multiplayer cabal and ruins singleplayer balance in order to please the <1% of players who regularly play that garbage. And it's terrible for the longevity of the game, so no actually, they shouldn't.</p>
CA balances the game for both the MP and SP communities
And they shouldn't be doing that. Because multiplayer balance is irrelevant. And when we discuss multiplayer balance it is generally understood that we mean competitive PvP. Since coop and head to head campaigns use the same balance as singleplayer.

It's fine for CA to support a tacked on multiplayer PvP mode, and it's fine to be a fan of it, but nothing should be changed in the actual game to appease the tiny minority that regularly plays it.

Adjusting stats for the sake of "MP balance" is nonsensical, even if we were to pretend that MP is relevant, since MP units are already balanced by cost. If something is overperforming then you increase its cost. If something is underperforming then you decrease its cost. There is no reason to ruin things for the 99% when you could literally just change the cost of the unit (or spell, or whatever else) in that mode.

I see you ignored the rest of my comment where I explain the actual problem. Keep blaming the MP guys for ruining your game and stay in your ignorance then.

SneedGaming · March 1

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Neodeinos said:

SneedGaming said:

Nazjax said:

ArneSo said:
Good, now give dwarfs silver and gold shields.
in MP
Nobody cares about "MP." This is a singleplayer game.
Ah yes the singleplayer game that happens to have free for all campaigns and MP battles with a ladder.
Multiplayer will NEVER be relevant no matter how much you cry about it.
I don't even care about MP but CA does and they should.
Someone at CA caves in to the demands of the multiplayer cabal and ruins singleplayer balance in order to please the <1% of players who regularly play that garbage. And it's terrible for the longevity of the game, so no actually, they shouldn't.</p>
CA balances the game for both the MP and SP communities
And they shouldn't be doing that. Because multiplayer balance is irrelevant. And when we discuss multiplayer balance it is generally understood that we mean competitive PvP. Since coop and head to head campaigns use the same balance as singleplayer.

It's fine for CA to support a tacked on multiplayer PvP mode, and it's fine to be a fan of it, but nothing should be changed in the actual game to appease the tiny minority that regularly plays it.

Adjusting stats for the sake of "MP balance" is nonsensical, even if we were to pretend that MP is relevant, since MP units are already balanced by cost. If something is overperforming then you increase its cost. If something is underperforming then you decrease its cost. There is no reason to ruin things for the 99% when you could literally just change the cost of the unit (or spell, or whatever else) in that mode.
I see you ignored the rest of my comment where I explain the actual problem. Keep blaming the MP guys for ruining your game and stay in your ignorance then.

Ok, I will.

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NINJA NERFS ALREADY HAPPENING ON OLD RACES