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Do fantasy orcs have the same power of belief that the 40k orcs have?

overtaker40#8926overtaker40#8926 Registered Users Posts: 1,098
Had some ideas for TW but then realised they might be different and im not really a lore buff, i tried to check the wikis but they are all quite large.

can a fan clarify?
I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.

Comments

  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 10,800
    I'm pretty sure that is how savage orc warpaint works, they believe it protects them, so it does.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • HereComesTormorrowHereComesTormorrow Registered Users Posts: 38
    40k orks don't have that either. Its a fan theory based on a fluff piece from an old codex (3rd edition I think) about a techpriest trying to make up excuses as to why he couldn't figure out ork tech. It's never been mentioned before or since.
  • TondurTondur Registered Users Posts: 48
    As far as I'm aware it's semantics that

    40k Orks - Power of imagination
    Fantasy Orks - Waaaaugh power
    I try to make the shortest, concise videos about Warhammer over @ https://youtube.com/channel/UC2J7uEJEM2N39BMVGEjmfcw
  • sykall#1105sykall#1105 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,983
    edited March 11
    As far as I am aware no. There are no psychic powers in warhammer, at least not like in 40k. And orcs do not warp reality around them by there own means.

    Instead orcish magic/miracles work through the winds of magic much like for anyone else. E.g. a Sigmarite Priests may channel the winds through his prayers into a spell. Though no priest would admit that as magic is a nono for any priest.
    Its similar with the greenskins lores of magic or magic driven devices, e.g. the Idols. Greenskins imprint themselves on the winds of magic and thus using it to create spells of benefit for them.

    So in general WFB belief may shape or influence reality through the winds of magic. And the orcs are really good at it. But its no feature exclusive to them. And its just for magic related stuff.
    Painting something red does not make it faster. And believing a weapon to function, does not make it happen. Except through a spell activly cast by a shaman. Or if its otherwise related to magic and ritual (e.g. blessings).
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
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  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 2,793
    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 10,800

    40k orks don't have that either. Its a fan theory based on a fluff piece from an old codex (3rd edition I think) about a techpriest trying to make up excuses as to why he couldn't figure out ork tech. It's never been mentioned before or since.

    What are you talking about? There are several Lore examples of Ork tech working simply because the Orks using it believes it does, heck, the whole thing about red painted vehicles going faster is 100% true, because Orks believe it works.

    If you don't know zilch don't say anything.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,938
    Savage Orc Warpaint is based on belief.
  • overtaker40#8926overtaker40#8926 Registered Users Posts: 1,098
    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 10,800
    edited March 11
    Here you have, actual rules from the 9th edition Ork codex.






    Post edited by Canuovea#6291 on
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 2,793

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    It would make sense, the same could apply to the Dwarfs too, could be a fun mechanic where they somewhat get stronger when in concentrated winds

    Though High winds presence should also increase spell failure
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 10,800

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, because the paint is the only real defence savage orcs have, if you make it dependant on the the wind of magic you just make them even useless, since you can't use them outside of very magical areas.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • lcmiraclelcmiracle Registered Users Posts: 909
    Savage Orcs in fantasy do have the ability to just make things true by believing it hard enough.

    Warhammer Armies: Orcs & Goblins. 4th edition. "Bestiary: Savage Orcs". p67

    Warhammer Armies: Orcs & Goblins. 8th edition. "Savage Orcs". p40
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,938

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 2,793

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
    All magic is chaos

    Even faith
  • Canuovea#6291Canuovea#6291 Registered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 15,927
    Thread cleaned up a bit. Off topic and poor behaviour has been removed.

    Please remember, also, that if there are objectional posts then they should be reported and ignored. Please do not become party to misbehaviour.
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    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • VildvargVildvarg Registered Users Posts: 2,713
    Canuovea said:

    Thread cleaned up a bit. Off topic and poor behaviour has been removed.

    Please remember, also, that if there are objectional posts then they should be reported and ignored. Please do not become party to misbehaviour.

    I aim to misbehave!

    Not really, it just sounds cool to say.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,938
    arthadaw said:

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
    All magic is chaos

    Even faith
    Warpaint has never relied on the winds of magic to impact its effectiveness.
  • sykall#1105sykall#1105 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,983

    arthadaw said:

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
    All magic is chaos

    Even faith
    Warpaint has never relied on the winds of magic to impact its effectiveness.
    So are runes once properly forged or created. Still magic is the foundation behind its effects.

    Its likley that greenskin warpaint acts similar runes or magical symbols of other factions.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
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  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 4,227
    Yes, but not to the same extent. Orcs in WHFB gain a bunch of supernatural powers when they come together in large numbers with a single purpose, typically for a big Waaagh!!! An obvious example is the snotling pump wagons, snotlings that are usually as dumb as animals come together and create these self-driving machines.
  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 2,793

    arthadaw said:

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
    All magic is chaos

    Even faith
    Warpaint has never relied on the winds of magic to impact its effectiveness.
    sykall said:

    arthadaw said:

    arthadaw said:

    Yes but also no

    No:

    The Orcs aren't able to to make tech work by being close by in enough amount (Gestalt's field)
    The Orcs relative power aren't going to make an orc grow in size

    Yes:

    The lore of the Waagh is a Divine Lore of Gork and Mork, and like any lore of magic there are diverse component in the magic, for example you might be able to develop a more potent spell of Aqshy while being close to a fire, the bigger the better

    For the Lore of the Waaagh it's similar, if the Orcs are in a rowdy state they can channel the winds and make your spell more potent but if you are in a place that has no wind (which practically doesn't exist) the caster would not get any bonus much like the Savage Orcs rune wouldn't do anything

    Do you think that, tying the savage units physical resist to a range of 10-40% based on the strength of the winds of magic and power reserves in the region, could be a fun mechanic given the changes to the magic system?
    No, warpaint is based on faith.
    All magic is chaos

    Even faith
    Warpaint has never relied on the winds of magic to impact its effectiveness.
    So are runes once properly forged or created. Still magic is the foundation behind its effects.

    Its likley that greenskin warpaint acts similar runes or magical symbols of other factions.
    Actually, Dwarven Runes do depend on the ambient wind, the strongest Runes (though that might just mean the most voracious) are not able to be roused since the ancient time. Those are the Runes used for the Golem and Giants


    Now for the war paint, if they affect the orc granting him a protection then it is magic and all magic is chaos
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 3,599
    Obviously not every instance of magic in-universe is going to be limited to magic as a game mechanic.
  • Sillybilly#1412Sillybilly#1412 Registered Users Posts: 305
    edited March 11
    It’s not exactly described as psychic but as many others have pointed out orc Warpaint is powered by faith. In the same way that battle prayers and the like work based entirely on a fervent belief in one’s god. So in this sense they do but it’s not really a unique property of orcs.
  • Heretical_Cactus#7598Heretical_Cactus#7598 Registered Users Posts: 2,793

    It’s not exactly described as psychic but as many others have pointed out orc Warpaint is powered by faith. In the same way that battle prayers and the like work based entirely on a fervent belief in one’s god. So in this sense they do but it’s not really a unique property of orcs.

    Which are still powered by the Winds of magic

    Cause Magic is chaos
  • VandicusVandicus Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 374
    It's similar but not precisely the same.

    Aggregation is not really a thing in Fantasy. Magic and faith power is individual. The Winds of magic aren't created by a mass of psykers, and were possible to capture and store in individuals (the Incarnates) through purely magical means. As opposed to getting a bunch of people to believe the Incarnates had the Winds attached to them.

    So ultimately there's some similarity between magic and psychic mechanics, but they're not the same and faith mechanics in fantasy are different from both.
  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 2,491
    Both in fantasy and 40k faith has power, the difference is scale, in 40k orks are capable of making colossal engines work because they believe so, in fantasy savage orc's warpaint do in fact protect them for the same reason.

    But this is not unique to orcs, they just are the best at it.
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