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Cathay caravan mechanic could be used to make oceans more alive.

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  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 946
    Neodeinos said:

    I'm usually not a fan of giving a racial unique mechanics to other races but I think it would be fitting for the High Elves with one difference though, you would only have sea trade routes and I think this mechanic could benefit for everyone even if it's only given to the High Elves. Think about it, the caravan armies are visible on the campaign map which means you can attack them as any faction, this would make the ocean more alive and interesting as you could attack those caravans as anyone.

    Vampire Coast could even be given some bonuses related to the attacks of "sea caravans" which would enhance the piracy theme of the race, just live your pirate life and attack the caravans in the ocean.

    This is a fantastic idea.

    Would give High Elves a new mechanic to go with their WH3 rework
    Would help keep their "Wealthy" theme if CA nerfs their economy cheats
    Would also give them map vision (Trader Spies)
    Would make the Oceans more alive for playing "Pirate Style" Vampire Coast/Dark Elves/Norsca

    IMO - Vampire Coast and Norsca also need new mechanics to improve their Ocean Combat and Coast raiding - Black Ark like units - or a reduced movement penalty for leaving/entering the sea maybe?

    Currently Dark Elves are the only really viable "Pirate" Faction.
    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    Mercii said:

    Neodeinos said:

    I'm usually not a fan of giving a racial unique mechanics to other races but I think it would be fitting for the High Elves with one difference though, you would only have sea trade routes and I think this mechanic could benefit for everyone even if it's only given to the High Elves. Think about it, the caravan armies are visible on the campaign map which means you can attack them as any faction, this would make the ocean more alive and interesting as you could attack those caravans as anyone.

    Vampire Coast could even be given some bonuses related to the attacks of "sea caravans" which would enhance the piracy theme of the race, just live your pirate life and attack the caravans in the ocean.

    This is a fantastic idea.

    Would give High Elves a new mechanic to go with their WH3 rework
    Would help keep their "Wealthy" theme if CA nerfs their economy cheats
    Would also give them map vision (Trader Spies)
    Would make the Oceans more alive for playing "Pirate Style" Vampire Coast/Dark Elves/Norsca

    IMO - Vampire Coast and Norsca also need new mechanics to improve their Ocean Combat and Coast raiding - Black Ark like units - or a reduced movement penalty for leaving/entering the sea maybe?

    Currently Dark Elves are the only really viable "Pirate" Faction.
    I think with norscas they should have mainly sea movement and raiding bonuses as their boats are very much like Viking boats if I recall but def agree with vampire coast who could tbh should be the best ocean faction considering they are mainly pirates and thus people on the sea . excluding Lokhir whos meant to be a more sea focused dark elf faction
  • MisterSurrealMisterSurreal Registered Users Posts: 36
    Neodeinos said:

    I'm usually not a fan of giving a racial unique mechanics to other races but I think it would be fitting for the High Elves with one difference though, you would only have sea trade routes and I think this mechanic could benefit for everyone even if it's only given to the High Elves. Think about it, the caravan armies are visible on the campaign map which means you can attack them as any faction, this would make the ocean more alive and interesting as you could attack those caravans as anyone.

    Vampire Coast could even be given some bonuses related to the attacks of "sea caravans" which would enhance the piracy theme of the race, just live your pirate life and attack the caravans in the ocean.

    Absolutely should be given to every Order faction, both at Sea and along the Ivory Road. Buff it for HElves and Cathay so they get a bit more benefit, either just more gold or other resources. It would also incentivise maintaining safe corridors between factions where possible, while providing targets for Orcs, VCoast, Ogres, CDwarves, etc.


    They should also make it interact with trade goods. Get more gold for sending your trade goods where they're wanted, give certain factions unique goods (like the HElves already have). Dwarven Gromril, Cathayan Jade, etc. Maybe have your cities demand certain goods, and provide income bonuses for keeping supplies of those goods high.

    I'd love to see the oceans as busy as possible. Even if there are no new mechanics for VCoast and DElves, the increased number of targets and rewards would be terrific.
  • Thursdaythe12thThursdaythe12th Registered Users Posts: 145
  • Bayes#3307Bayes#3307 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,015
    This is one of those suggestions I am sad to read because it probably wont make it into the game(most suggestions wont) but it really should.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    edited May 8
    Definitely makes sense for certain races and for other races to raid those sea convoys.

    Gives something different than islands and gives Vampirates, Dark Elves, Norsca, and some others a way to grow their economy without touching land which is kinda cool.

    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • DavidTWWH#4143DavidTWWH#4143 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,327
    I missed this when it was posted, glad I'm seeing it now, it's a great idea, the high elves really need an update and this would improve other race's campaigns as well (mostly norsca, dark elves and vampire coast) I hope the devs see this!
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • DesignDragonDesignDragon Registered Users Posts: 113
    Why do so many people in this thread like this idea? What would make this different than just having treasure ships out at sea with battles?

    Not sure I would want sea trade caravans as the high elves. Wouldn't this be limiting to people like Imrik? Plus, the additional burden of needing to deal with caravans as high elves sounds like a chore. It's already annoying for Cathay.
  • overtaker40#8926overtaker40#8926 Registered Users Posts: 1,144
    talonn said:

    But that means you are really at the mercy of autoresolve so I am not so sure about that

    What do you mean? They added the pseudo island alternative.
    I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.
  • ROMOBOY#7812ROMOBOY#7812 Registered Users Posts: 4,814
    I miss trade lines in general.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    edited May 9

    Why do so many people in this thread like this idea? What would make this different than just having treasure ships out at sea with battles?

    Not sure I would want sea trade caravans as the high elves. Wouldn't this be limiting to people like Imrik? Plus, the additional burden of needing to deal with caravans as high elves sounds like a chore. It's already annoying for Cathay.

    Imrik can get ports- on the ME map those ports don't do much but if the leaked combined map is anywhere close to accuruate and Imrik remains in that part of the world, grabbing some ports would let him trade with Ulthuan and other places which is HE's schtick.

    Caravans are different from rogue pirates and treasures because diplomatically they are connected to their home faction and because they level up and have varied armies can be quite a bit more interesting to fight.

    If Southern Relams or a mecenary faction are added they would also give additional targets to fulfill contracts without having to cross the world or attack settlements.

    As for caravans or convoys being a burden... don't use it then. Simple. It only adds 10-15k every 7-10 turns + battle lot of roughly 1.5k per battle = on 3-5 battles per route - the cargo cost giving total return of 14-20k or an extra 2k per turn which is pretty good but only = 2 extra provinces.
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,328
    ROMOBOY said:

    I miss trade lines in general.

    Da one that knows the real truth . Trade lines animated trade lines

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • mw51630#6772mw51630#6772 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,200
    I love this idea, but it also reminds me of how much naval material (trade lines, recruiting navies, naval combat) is cut out of Total War: WH.
  • SemtexOro#2225SemtexOro#2225 Registered Users Posts: 85
    For High Elves Id like to see some mechanic around restoring lost Elven colonies. We already have elven ports around the world map, so it would make sense. Also can provide them with navy and sea trade, for which they are known. And it would fit perfectly with Lothern Skycutters.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    SemtexOro said:

    For High Elves Id like to see some mechanic around restoring lost Elven colonies. We already have elven ports around the world map, so it would make sense. Also can provide them with navy and sea trade, for which they are known. And it would fit perfectly with Lothern Skycutters.

    It would be cool that capturing a former Elven colony port gives a new convoy destination so gives a higher profit when rotating convoys. Probably factions with trade agreements that have ports with capitols could be the other convoy destination for High Elves.

    Ulthuan would have to be barred from sending convoys within Ulthuan or make them not very profitable but sending convoys to Courenne, Altdorf, Barak Varr, Citadel of Dusk, etc.
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • SagezSagez Registered Users Posts: 510
    This is necroing that I like, awesome thread with great ideas.

    Deep dives for Dwarves would be also cool, like caravans but about digging deeper and deeper!

    Rock and Stone!
  • FrostPaw#5051FrostPaw#5051 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,226
    Not sure High Elves need to make more money. I like the idea of trade caravans/ships for all though.... Personally it's too engaging to tie to a single faction.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    edited May 9
    FrostPaw said:

    Not sure High Elves need to make more money. I like the idea of trade caravans/ships for all though.... Personally it's too engaging to tie to a single faction.

    Sure, but I think HE could have a bit more of their economy/racial bonuses tied to it.

    I expect Neferata will bring Vampire covens, Skaven have undercities, Ogres have contracts, DE have slaves, Greenskins, Norsca, and Chaos have sacking/raiding, etc.

    CA seems to be giving most races 1 'extra' source of income via mechanics and races that can't trade or have a weak economy like Beastmen and Tomb Kings get hugely reduced upkeep or other bonuses as their mechanic.

    If Bretonnia, High Elves, and Southern Realms get sea convoys that seems fair. The Cathay Sea Dragon LL when it comes could have sea convoys rather than land caravans.

    Empire and Dwarfs could also get the Cathay version of land caravans.

    Chaos Dwarfs would have slaves and could raid Empire, Dwarf, and Cathayan caravans.

    The only ones I am not sure about are Lizardmen and Wood Elves, both are isolationists so probably something centered around their own goals.

    Lizardmen having a strong geomantic web based on fulfilling aspects of the Great Plan or unifying the Slann (confederating).

    Wood Elves maybe might be able to extract tribute from human and other Elven factions if they cooperate- basically like how allied factions currently generate allegiance points now- Wood Elves could use those points for recruiting units or gaining income.

    If Marienburg, Barak Varr, or Nordland are ever introduced via LL they might get sea convoys but I don't know any LLs that seem likely tied to any of those so more likely those would get it via mods.

    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
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