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Is Cylostra canon now? Chance for her in Old World?

IamNotArobot#8850IamNotArobot#8850 Registered Users Posts: 5,743
I love her, I know a lot of you don’t (some for dark reasons, others just because she screams)

She is in the same position as Cathay, she could be considered part of the new updated lore for warhamer fantasy.

Mini and lore book when?
*Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
*Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
*Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
*Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
*Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
*Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
*Improve UI


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Comments

  • Sultschiem#8734Sultschiem#8734 Registered Users Posts: 3,499
    She is not in the same position as Cathay.

    Old world focusses on a time long before the current conflict, where Cathay and Kislev also existed.

    But Cylostra is current day warhammer, if by anything. Unless they retcon her to being around that time already that is.
  • IamNotArobot#8850IamNotArobot#8850 Registered Users Posts: 5,743

    She is not in the same position as Cathay.

    Old world focusses on a time long before the current conflict, where Cathay and Kislev also existed.

    But Cylostra is current day warhammer, if by anything. Unless they retcon her to being around that time already that is.

    Do you know when was she alive in wh2 lore?
    *Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
    *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
    *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
    *Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
    *Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
    *Improve UI


  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 15,851
    I don't see why she would even appear in the Old World.
  • Ariel#4992Ariel#4992 Registered Users Posts: 2,373
    That will depend if Zombie pirates receive an update in The Old World. If yes, I think that GW might go with the avatar of Stormfels, if no, then I think this is her first and last appearance.

    The final rose has faded,
    The eaves will sing no more;
    The waxen ground will keep you bound,
    Death-pale until the thaw.
    Then she placed the rest of Orion's ashes into the bowl and turned to face the Oak of Ages.
    I used to go by many names here. Crazycrix, Dubinekdubajs, Yrellian and finally Ariel, one of my favourite characters in the setting. Still waiting for Finubar and Naieth!
  • IamNotArobot#8850IamNotArobot#8850 Registered Users Posts: 5,743
    Neodeinos said:

    I don't see why she would even appear in the Old World.

    A way foe GW to consider her canon, I think they do.
    *Justice, cats and CONFEDERATION ENABLED for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast! feat mummies and Apophas.
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
    *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
    *Ogre Kingdoms core race or death!
    *Bring back settlement conquering artworks!
    *Gnoblar Carpet for Greesus
    *Improve UI


  • Ariel#4992Ariel#4992 Registered Users Posts: 2,373

    She is not in the same position as Cathay.

    Old world focusses on a time long before the current conflict, where Cathay and Kislev also existed.

    But Cylostra is current day warhammer, if by anything. Unless they retcon her to being around that time already that is.

    Do you know when was she alive in wh2 lore?
    It’s not specified if I recall correctly. She was just an envoy to the phoenix king but we do not know which one.

    The final rose has faded,
    The eaves will sing no more;
    The waxen ground will keep you bound,
    Death-pale until the thaw.
    Then she placed the rest of Orion's ashes into the bowl and turned to face the Oak of Ages.
    I used to go by many names here. Crazycrix, Dubinekdubajs, Yrellian and finally Ariel, one of my favourite characters in the setting. Still waiting for Finubar and Naieth!
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,835
    This game is not canon.
    Kneel

  • #902441#902441 Registered Users Posts: 7,489
    I sometimes think canon is dignifying GW's writing with something it doesn't really deserve for often contradictory fluff written to sell miniatures!

    Be that as it may, she was written in with GW's blessing, by a well known GW writer, so that's as canon as one could get.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 21,380
    Anything OK'd by GW is canon, although I'm not sure if her timeline would work as it's a few hundred years before game 2. At the very least they may reference her existence as a famous performer.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    Neodeinos said:

    I don't see why she would even appear in the Old World.

    actually its a lot higher than you think because if they want bring coast to old world this is a good chance since we don't really know which time period she was alive and they can hand wave her exisitance to old world and it will save time to GW

    since they don't to make bunch of different characters and thanks to wh 2 she is actually known well now in the community

    which is the same reason all cathay characters are monke and Dragons since you can easily use them in any time line

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 1,572
    The old table top game didn't really have a set specific time frame. The timeline for all the books met at a certain point, but the units in the army books did not. Grom was in the greenskin book even though he was no longer around in cannon stories during Karl's reign. Manfred has two different entries to represent when Vlad was still around (Vlad and Isabella are also in the book),and another when returned as the head of the Von Carsteins centuries later. That means the Vampire count book includes characters that are separated by 500 years in cannon.

    Cylostra could definitely be in the Old World, almost anyone can. Cylostra has a good chance though because she is undead and her lore doesn't include anything that would specify a time when she became undead. It seems implied that she was around before Louen because she died decades before she became an infamous undead pirate, so Louen couldn't have the king.

    The only thing that might keep her out is copyright depending one who actually owns the rights to character.
    "Daemons are abroad again, and the servants of the foul gods march south with the storm at their backs. But as the winds of magic stir, other powers rise to contest it.
    I have seen the Lady, my brothers. She came to me from the waters and told me of the trials to come. This is why I call you here, so that Her summons may be answered. I call Errantry, a crusade to strike at the heart of the new darkness"


    -- The Lionhearted
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 5,332
    She's been approved by GW, and if I remember correctly, it was a GW writer who wrote her backstory. So I'd say she's 100% cannon, on the same level as Kostaltyn and Cathay's dragons.

    As to having a model, it depends if Vampire Coast are made into their own faction on tabletop - which unlike Cathay and Kislev is not confirmed.
  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 6,649
    Arsenic said:

    I sometimes think canon is dignifying GW's writing with something it doesn't really deserve for often contradictory fluff written to sell miniatures!


    This is the true answer.

    It’s all just retrofitted stories to explain why we should buy a pewter toy soldier.
    (It’s still great fun)
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 6,649

    Arsenic said:

    I sometimes think canon is dignifying GW's writing with something it doesn't really deserve for often contradictory fluff written to sell miniatures!


    This is the true answer.

    It’s all just retrofitted stories to explain why we should buy a pewter toy soldier.
    (It’s still great fun)
    Sorry, the kids buy plastic (yuck) toy soldiers these days.
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 11,223
    We got confirmation from CA themselves a long time ago that everything they add to the game in terms of units and characters becomes canon, in the sense that Cylostra now is a canon character in Fantasy beyond the game, but things like the Chaos Realms Campaign isn't.

    The problem is that we don't know when she was resurrected or when did she took command of the Lamprey, that should be clarified before even considering adding her to the OW.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 15,851
    saweendra said:

    Neodeinos said:

    I don't see why she would even appear in the Old World.

    actually its a lot higher than you think because if they want bring coast to old world this is a good chance since we don't really know which time period she was alive and they can hand wave her exisitance to old world and it will save time to GW

    since they don't to make bunch of different characters and thanks to wh 2 she is actually known well now in the community

    which is the same reason all cathay characters are monke and Dragons since you can easily use them in any time line
    I hope to be wrong but I don't see the Vampire Coast making an appearance in the Old World.
  • DarthEnderX-#6513DarthEnderX-#6513 Registered Users Posts: 4,735
    Everything created for this game has to be approved by GW. And GW wouldn't have approved it if they didn't want it in WH.
    "Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 11,223
    Neodeinos said:

    saweendra said:

    Neodeinos said:

    I don't see why she would even appear in the Old World.

    actually its a lot higher than you think because if they want bring coast to old world this is a good chance since we don't really know which time period she was alive and they can hand wave her exisitance to old world and it will save time to GW

    since they don't to make bunch of different characters and thanks to wh 2 she is actually known well now in the community

    which is the same reason all cathay characters are monke and Dragons since you can easily use them in any time line
    I hope to be wrong but I don't see the Vampire Coast making an appearance in the Old World.
    I mean, we are getting Cathay that is roughly at the same distance from the Empire as Lustria is, so it's not like I would be impossible.

    A better question is what VCoast would we see, because I don't remember exactly if Luthor is already in Lustria and I'm pretty sure Noctilus hasn't become a pirate yet.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,765
    Events and characters that exist in Games only are usually not actually canon. Expanded universe material is frequently mutually exclusive with each other or otherwise never referenced again in any other material.

    Total War too has always been a 'create your own story' game rather than a lore/history simulator.

    As to Cylostra, there's no reason why she couldn't be canon. But GW signing off on CA tinkering or creating something doesn't make it official GW canon by default.

    For example, CA created an Nehekaran Warriors and the Revivification Crystal for this game. That doesn't mean that the next Tomb Kings/Lizardmen Armybook is coming with models, rules, and lore references for them. They might be just a 'this game' thing.

    Cathay and Kislev are a different matter, as GW has explicitly stated they are bringing those Races forward in Old World.

    TL;DR: Cylostra has the capacity to be canon. But unless GW brings her forward into something else, she's just 'this game' thing, like every other 'this game' thing that exists in Total War or any of the other hundreds of other Warhammer games with their own unique events and characters.
  • RomeoReject#1666RomeoReject#1666 Registered Users Posts: 2,093
    I would say: Yes, she is canon. As for the second half of the question... Maybe, but I'd likely still lean towards no. Now, that being said, one could always fire up the old 3D printer and print out a rigged Cylostra model.

    *GW legal teams busts down my door*
  • Caffynated#2235Caffynated#2235 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,463
    Video game characters are considered to be on the same level as the characters players create to tell their stories on the table top. They're not part of the GW story (aka canon), they're part of the game they're in's story.

    There have been hundreds of "GW approved" video game characters that never went beyond their game and TW characters are no different.
  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 1,572

    Video game characters are considered to be on the same level as the characters players create to tell their stories on the table top. They're not part of the GW story (aka canon), they're part of the game they're in's story.

    There have been hundreds of "GW approved" video game characters that never went beyond their game and TW characters are no different.

    There have been a lot of characters in GW's own novels that don't show up anywhere else. Are those characters not cannon?
    "Daemons are abroad again, and the servants of the foul gods march south with the storm at their backs. But as the winds of magic stir, other powers rise to contest it.
    I have seen the Lady, my brothers. She came to me from the waters and told me of the trials to come. This is why I call you here, so that Her summons may be answered. I call Errantry, a crusade to strike at the heart of the new darkness"


    -- The Lionhearted
  • Mogwai_Man#4978Mogwai_Man#4978 Registered Users Posts: 6,059
    Not canon, unless GW says she is.
  • lcmiracle#6727lcmiracle#6727 Registered Users Posts: 1,011
    Most video game characters only gets a passing reference, like Captain Titus from the Space Marine games, being done as two specially painted minis that resembles him and his companion. Blood Ravens was the one that got a special mention due to how popular the chapter as a whole had become, by way of a white dwarf chapter approved article and I think a mention in 6/7E SM/BA codex. They got no chapter tactics so one has to custom build them.

    Stefan von Kessel of the Mark of Chaos game got a mention in Vampire Count army book timeline (8th edition page 23, 7th page 31), but no mention of him defeating Sorgar but rather a vampire lord named Waldakir Rahtep. This is about as much as a canonization you can get in Warhammerverse really.
  • Red_Dox#2328Red_Dox#2328 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,464
    edited March 28
    She is currently as much canon as Tcharzanek or Grumlok&Gazbag or Morgan Bernhardt or the Ubersreik 5.
    So until GW actually uses her for WHFB on their own, she is more or less just something floating around in the background, made entirely for TWW. The same can go for nuKislev and Cathay to some degree, but at least here GW seems to have their fingers already on it and plan to utilize it...somewhat....in "The Old World" future. Of course that does not need to be a 1:1 adaption from what we saw in TWW (Changes can come easily).
    Something that might not happen to Cylostra since its very doubtful Vampirates become a (own) thing in TOW. And the day GW might showcase some Vampire stuff, quick reminder that TOW still has no fixed timeline and best guess ranges to centering around 2200 IC. Which means Vlads, Konrads and Mannfreds Vampire Wars were pretty recently (all three dead in 2220 IC) and depending what GW will do, we might see those Wars fleshed out more [I mean we just have the novels, tales in every VC armybook, a CJ campaign...], or learn more about their aftermath (who ruled Sylvania after Mannfred? What did the scattered von Carsteind do afterwards?]. Hopefully focussing on other Bloodlines for once [what did Neferata do in those times? Or zachariras? Dieter von Helsnicht? Whatever Strigoi?].

    ------Red Dox
    Post edited by Red_Dox#2328 on
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,215
    No, but Queen Bess is a whole cannon:



    The girth of glory.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 21,380
    Cylostra is canon, just as much as any character that appears in a single book or game. Anything licenced by GW makes her canon. Now, if people want to add special rules to that it's cool but don't forget, these little rules and ideas do not come from GW, they come from an individual on the internet.
  • AxiosXiphos#9040AxiosXiphos#9040 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,521
    Red_Dox said:

    She is currently as much canon as Tcharzanek or Grumlok&Gazbag or Morgan Bernhardt or the Ubersreik 5.
    So until GW actually uses her for WHFB on their own, she is more or less just something floating around in the background, made entirely for TWW. The same can go for nuKislev and Cathay to some degree, but at least here GW seems to have their fingers already on it and plan to utilize it...somewhat....in "The Old World" future. Of course that does not need to be a 1:1 adaption from what we saw in TWW (Changes can come easily).
    Something that might not happen to Cylostra since its very doubtful Vampirates become a (own) thing in TOW. And the day GW might showcase some Vampire stuff, quick reminder that TOW still has no fixed timeline and best guess ranges to centering around 2200 IC. Which means Vlads, Konrads and Mannfreds Vampire Wars were pretty recently (all three dead in 2220 IC) and depending what GW will do, we might see those Wars fleshed out more [I mean we just have the novels, tales in every VC armybook, a CJ campaign...], or learn more about their aftermath (who ruled Sylvania after Mannfred? What did the scattered von Carsteind do afterwards?]. Hopefully focussing on other Bloodlines for once [what did Neferata do in those times? Or zachariras? Dieter von Helsnicht? Whatever Strigoi?].

    ------Red Dox

    I actually don't know this for certain - but I have heard Morgan got a mention in White Dwarf to.

    However with Warhammer the canon is all over the place - you pretty much just have to pick what you want. In general I think it's safe to assume something is canon; until it is proven to not be.
  • Lord_Zarkov#7252Lord_Zarkov#7252 Registered Users Posts: 1,921

    Red_Dox said:

    She is currently as much canon as Tcharzanek or Grumlok&Gazbag or Morgan Bernhardt or the Ubersreik 5.
    So until GW actually uses her for WHFB on their own, she is more or less just something floating around in the background, made entirely for TWW. The same can go for nuKislev and Cathay to some degree, but at least here GW seems to have their fingers already on it and plan to utilize it...somewhat....in "The Old World" future. Of course that does not need to be a 1:1 adaption from what we saw in TWW (Changes can come easily).
    Something that might not happen to Cylostra since its very doubtful Vampirates become a (own) thing in TOW. And the day GW might showcase some Vampire stuff, quick reminder that TOW still has no fixed timeline and best guess ranges to centering around 2200 IC. Which means Vlads, Konrads and Mannfreds Vampire Wars were pretty recently (all three dead in 2220 IC) and depending what GW will do, we might see those Wars fleshed out more [I mean we just have the novels, tales in every VC armybook, a CJ campaign...], or learn more about their aftermath (who ruled Sylvania after Mannfred? What did the scattered von Carsteind do afterwards?]. Hopefully focussing on other Bloodlines for once [what did Neferata do in those times? Or zachariras? Dieter von Helsnicht? Whatever Strigoi?].

    ------Red Dox

    I actually don't know this for certain - but I have heard Morgan got a mention in White Dwarf to.

    However with Warhammer the canon is all over the place - you pretty much just have to pick what you want. In general I think it's safe to assume something is canon; until it is proven to not be.
    GW’s line has always been everything is canon but not everything is true. Certainly they worry much less about it than most of the fans - they’re quite happy to ignore stuff or reinterpret it when they do reference it again. They also regularly fish something out that hasn’t been referenced for years or even decades if they think it’s interesting.

    That said there’s definitely a de facto hierarchy of GW Studio product (> FW) > BL book > everything else in terms of how likely they are to stick to something established previously, it’s just not as tightly defined as say Star Wars.

    So Cyclostra is ‘canon’ but GW are not necessarily beholden to portray her exact story should she reappear in the future.
  • Sultschiem#8734Sultschiem#8734 Registered Users Posts: 3,499
    If they decide to give vampire coast some support then I would not be surprised if she made an appearance.

    She is a pretty cool character, love the design....an Opera Singing Ghost Pirate that can summon giant crabs....
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