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The Dawi Zharr

ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487
I for one am looking forward to the vertically challenged slavers, i´m a sucker for artillery heavy races and they are known in the lore to have some of the most devastating artillery pieces, the question is, how should CA balance them without them becoming stupidly OP yet still remain faithful to the lore?

Making their artillery hit like a semi-wet noodle wont do as The Dawi Zharr is known for having some of the most devastating artillery in the entire setting.

Making it unreliable won´t do either as those demonridden machinations are properly bound by dark magic and the will of Hashut

Neither would making it innacurate

Giving them weak frontlines won´t do either as they are known to be as heavily armored as their feeble cousins

So how should they balance what could be called the strongest artillery batteries in the entire setting from afk farming the AI from campaign start?


Dawi Zharr pic for tax



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Comments

  • SneedGamingSneedGaming Registered Users Posts: 281
    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,718
    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487
    ArneSo said:

    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.

    Ugh no, For Hashut no....Just no
  • SneedGamingSneedGaming Registered Users Posts: 281
    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,718
    Reeks said:

    ArneSo said:

    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.

    Ugh no, For Hashut no....Just no
    Just like TK.

    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487

    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
    The thing is i´m not one of the people who were wond of the Tomb King system
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,718
    Reeks said:

    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
    The thing is i´m not one of the people who were wond of the Tomb King system
    The TK system is amazing. More buildings = more units. Perfection.

    The K’Dai units should even be more limited, you should have to collect souls to recruit them.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487
    ArneSo said:

    Reeks said:

    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
    The thing is i´m not one of the people who were wond of the Tomb King system
    The TK system is amazing. More buildings = more units. Perfection.

    The K’Dai units should even be more limited, you should have to collect souls to recruit them.
    If you like your armies to consist of 60-70% chaff and low level units i guess you could call it perfection

    On the other hand if you enjoy having free reign over your army composition it´s the opposite
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,630
    any way your forbidden to play them

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487
    saweendra said:

    any way your forbidden to play them


  • IndefatigableIndefatigable Registered Users Posts: 261
    Just make it so that you need to have levelled up a unit of chaos hats to unlock the better mounts and their better weapons. Until a unit of Chaos Hats hits the first gold chevron, they shouldn't be able to replace the weapons and armour of their mounts to top tier equipment - a bit like the Amazons system from Troy but the Chaos Hats can even trade in their mounts for centaurs if they don't like the ones they are on.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487

    Just make it so that you need to have levelled up a unit of chaos hats to unlock the better mounts and their better weapons. Until a unit of Chaos Hats hits the first gold chevron, they shouldn't be able to replace the weapons and armour of their mounts to top tier equipment - a bit like the Amazons system from Troy but the Chaos Hats can even trade in their mounts for centaurs if they don't like the ones they are on.

    Huh..

    That is a very interesting line of thinking actually

    Locking the goodies behind experience would also encourage one to look after one´s units/heroes as they were the firstborn heir to the throne...
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,718
    Reeks said:

    ArneSo said:

    Reeks said:

    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
    The thing is i´m not one of the people who were wond of the Tomb King system
    The TK system is amazing. More buildings = more units. Perfection.

    The K’Dai units should even be more limited, you should have to collect souls to recruit them.
    If you like your armies to consist of 60-70% chaff and low level units i guess you could call it perfection

    On the other hand if you enjoy having free reign over your army composition it´s the opposite
    They should.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • LantharonLantharon Registered Users Posts: 25
    It should recharge SLOOOOWLY, if I remember correctly in Tamurkan there was the option to take an ogre slave to speed the earthshaker (or how was it called there). So yeah that's a liability
  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 1,289
    They are gonna be tough to balance for sure - they have everything, great arti, great infantry and ranged, magic and monsters.... I reckon they are going to make Skaven, the current op champions, look like, well skaven, as in skavenslaves.
    Only thing I can think of, is their monsters and magic is going to have to be weak otherwise they are busted.
    But they are going to make their bff cousins look bad...'sad noises. :'(
  • MisterSquidMisterSquid Florida, USARegistered Users Posts: 2,020
    ArneSo said:

    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.

    I'd really rather they didn't go this route. I don't mind having some Greenskin units, but I want to play Chaos Dwarfs for Chaos Dwarfs, not their slaves.
    Remember: there's no reason to get angry on the forums. Be polite and respectful towards other people's opinions, even if you disagree.

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  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 32,718

    ArneSo said:

    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.

    I'd really rather they didn't go this route. I don't mind having some Greenskin units, but I want to play Chaos Dwarfs for Chaos Dwarfs, not their slaves.
    You shouldn’t be able to spam Doomstack after doomstack of Chaos Dwarfs tho… we need some kind of manpower system.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,519
    Reeks said:

    ArneSo said:

    Reeks said:

    Reeks said:

    I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed a dozen times, chaos dwarf units will be expensive to encourage you to take cheap greenskin slaves for at least 1/3 of your army.

    Hmm yea i guess that would be an option

    Not one i would like honestly as i loathe having my army composition stuffed down my throat by such limitations.
    It would achieve the same practical result as the Tomb Kings recruitment system but would avoid having hard caps. And people seemed to like the TK system.
    The thing is i´m not one of the people who were wond of the Tomb King system
    The TK system is amazing. More buildings = more units. Perfection.

    The K’Dai units should even be more limited, you should have to collect souls to recruit them.
    If you like your armies to consist of 60-70% chaff and low level units i guess you could call it perfection

    On the other hand if you enjoy having free reign over your army composition it´s the opposite
    Well, for the TK you have free reign. You just have to put in the extra work (getting the slots for the buildings in this case). The Nurgle/ToB system has an interesting softcap too.
    I could see a Dawi Zharr system being tied to slaves. You need to leave enough hats at home to deal with your slaves (maintain a "healthy" population ratio to keep the buggers in check). Maybe cost will suffice though?
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,076
    Something to reflect that they have a very small population. Mb make them extremely expensive and Greenskin slaves free?

  • PoorManatee6197PoorManatee6197 Registered Users Posts: 2,176
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Chaos Dwarfs should have unit caps for Chaos Dwarfs.

    This way trash Greenskins become more useful.

    I'd really rather they didn't go this route. I don't mind having some Greenskin units, but I want to play Chaos Dwarfs for Chaos Dwarfs, not their slaves.
    You shouldn’t be able to spam Doomstack after doomstack of Chaos Dwarfs tho… we need some kind of manpower system.
    But for other races it is ok?
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


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  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487

    Something to reflect that they have a very small population. Mb make them extremely expensive and Greenskin slaves free?

    Same is said for the dawi and the elves are also said to be dwindling, yet they are legion in game
  • 55JoNNo55JoNNo Registered Users Posts: 2,357
    Chaos Dwarfs won't and shouldn't have a frontline as tanky as the True Dawi. Otherwise they'll just end up as an overtuned version which is a risk anyway.

    Bohemond for game 3 please!

  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 5,634
    Most artillery in this game hit hard and is pretty accurate even if they are crewed by zombies. Doubt theirs will be any less.
  • Fingolfin_the-GoldenFingolfin_the-Golden Registered Users Posts: 4,706
    They will be full of hobby goblins to counteract their power.
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,458
    Expensive elites and rebellions will balance them out.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Registered Users Posts: 1,818
    Simple. Greenskin meatshields + powerful Chaos Dwarf units ranging from well armed and armored infantry, war machines and monsters.
    Do wonder what they would add in more apart from the stuff they have in lore. Maybe additionally they'll get Magma Dragons apart of the K'Daai? Because from the wording in the Magma Dragon's entry in the Monstrous Arcanum it's very heavily implied that the evil Mesopotamian stunties created the first of their kind by transforming a simple Fire Dragon into one with insane daemon-binding techniques and sorcery (and the results would be used to create their K'Daai). Of course it went even worse than with the creation of Black Orcs as said dragon trashed the Tower of Gorgoth and holocausted the slave camps around said tower before flying away.
  • SultschiemSultschiem Registered Users Posts: 3,092
    edited April 4
    Would love to see a system for recruiting slave regiments based on....well...slavery.
    Kinda similar to Rakarth, where certain actions can result into beasts, why can't the same be done for Chaos Dwarfs?

    Depending on the area, after combat etc. you get pools of slave anxilleries....

    Greenskins, Ogres, low tier human infantry, low tier cavalry (e.g. norscan horsemen, peasents etc.), beastmen, skaven, etc.

    Similar to rakarth, they come in rarities... and some high tier stuff would include perhaps black orcs, giants,

    Also...why not letting them experiment on them with demonic infusions, a bit like throt (e.g. see Siege Giant)

    BUT, if you take them as anxillery forces, you reduce your slave count and thus elements for your economy and rituals.
  • HarveyJamesHarveyJames Registered Users Posts: 162
    more meaningful slavery and unit pools would be nice, requiring some actual management and some meaningful lore would be nice instead of unrealistic 19 greater demon doom stacks ..
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,867
    I could see them going with a system like Bretonnia but swap peasants for CD's. You can only have so many CD's on the field while the rest manage the slaves. Take to many slavemasters away and you have higher chance of slave rebellions and maybe less income.

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