Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Wood Elves in ME

Rebel4ever85Rebel4ever85 Registered Users Posts: 200
edited April 8 in General Discussion
We all know wood elves are pretty damn strong on the battlefield. I hope we can all agree on that much at least. However campaign wise they are still pretty weak and can be frustraiting to play for a few reasons. While the update improved them a lot and gave them a teleport mechanic (not sure i like that tbh) they still have the problem with expansion with the fact you can't hold land easier and this effects economy and recuitment away from your major settlements.

I think I have come up with a fair solution

When you capture a whole region you can make its capital up to a t3 setting (like a minor for everyone else) but what you build in the capital upgrades the defences of the outposts making them easier to defend. In addition to this the map could have more tree's grow in the area so it's like a "nature corruption" effect. I think some sort of walls should be avalible too...they at least give time for you to get back and defend.

Does that sound fair? I think its good to reward region control and being able to defend settlements in a game with random beastmen, rogue armies and more enemy factions than ever has increased the importance of settlement defence.

Comments

  • CyresdogCyresdog Registered Users Posts: 1,406

    We all know wood elves are pretty damn strong on the battlefield. I hope we can all agree on that much at least. However campaign wise they are still pretty weak and can be frustraiting to play for a few reasons. While the update improved them a lot and gave them a teleport mechanic (not sure i like that tbh) they still have the problem with expansion with the fact you can't hold land easier and this effects economy and recuitment away from your major settlements.

    I think I have come up with a fair solution

    When you capture a whole region you can make its capital up to a t3 setting (like a minor for everyone else) but what you build in the capital upgrades the defences of the outposts making them easier to defend. In addition to this the map could have more tree's grow in the area so it's like a "nature corruption" effect. I think some sort of walls should be avalible too...they at least give time for you to get back and defend.

    Does that sound fair? I think its good to reward region control and being able to defend settlements in a game with random beastmen, rogue armies and more enemy factions than ever has increased the importance of settlement defence.

    But the entire Shtick of Wood Elves is them being self centered and stick to their very own forrests, isn't it?
    Them being the way they are rn is a perfect solution in my opinion.

    They are not out there to expand their kingdom. They have their natural forests that they defend at all costs, but for anything outside of those there is not much care from their side.
    Changing that would make them yet another Elves faction. Now they are being unique with the playstyle, you don't have to like it. A lot of others do.
  • petherpether Registered Users Posts: 176
    I like how WE are unique and are encouraged to care only about the forests. I can understand why people wouldn't like such playstyle, but this is the strenght of TW:WH - many unique races with unique playstyles to appeal for different players - you don't like one playstyle, you have plenty others to choose from.

    As a Wood Elf player I am really happy how recent rework changed them and I wouldn't change a thing. OK, maybe some things could do some rebalance and repolish, maybe the campaign could be more engaging when you sit in your forest, but overall the main idea is in perfect spot.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 8,013
    Nah, I think the WE update was perfect, perhaps the best rework CA has done.

    WEs play as they should in campaign, they are isolationist and focussed on their own goals, they should not be a race focussed on painting the map. Their style of play also encourages you to get out and about around the world, so you can fight a lot of different races almost at will. It is imo the most thematic campaign in the game.

    Also their campaign teleport is actually 100% a loreful thing, and really what the teleport should have been from the beginning (thing CA should probably get read of the underway stance if anything). The World Roots is how the WEs get to faraway places quickly.

    On making outposts more defencible, maybe capitals you capture could get a building to allow travel there by World Roots, though maybe that would be OP.
  • Rebel4ever85Rebel4ever85 Registered Users Posts: 200
    edited April 8
    But the entire Shtick of Wood Elves is them being self centered and stick to their very own forrests, isn't it?
    Them being the way they are rn is a perfect solution in my opinion.


    You could say the same about the Dwarves, Tomb Kings, High Elves or Lizardmen but they can expand.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,519
    They are the ultimate building tall faction in the game. Changing their ability to hold any province would promote aggressive expansion and thus seriously interfere with that.
    Unlike the other Elder Races (HE, DE, LM and Dwarfs, all of which don't really expand but wage wars for non-conquest related reasons) they actually are in a good place and behave appropriately.
  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 1,569

    But the entire Shtick of Wood Elves is them being self centered and stick to their very own forrests, isn't it?
    Them being the way they are rn is a perfect solution in my opinion.


    You could say the same about the Dwarves, Tomb Kings, High Elves or Lizardmen but they can expand.
    You can't say that about them. They might be self centered, but they aren't isolationists like the Wood elves.

    Prior to the War of the Beard, there were 3 superpowers. The High Elves, Dwarfs and Nehekhara (you could argue that Cathay is on that list now). Nehekhara used to cover most of the old world, southlands, and even parts of Lustria. Anything that wasn't conquered by them was taken by the Elves and Dwarfs. They all collapsed for one reason or another, but they are all expansionist by nature.

    The Lizardmen aren't conquerors, by they aren't isolationists eithers. They can do anything they want as long as it serves their purpose. As far as they're concerned, they claim sovereignty and authority over the entire world.

    The Wood Elves on the other hand, only exist as a response to the High Elves' former expansion and the trouble they believe it brought them. To quote the WE army book:

    "The history of the Wood Elves is a search for balance and solitude tempered by ceaseless war.... Unlike the other Elven races of the world, the Wood Elves have never sought to rule, and wish only to see their homeland persist through all the coming ages of the world."
    "Daemons are abroad again, and the servants of the foul gods march south with the storm at their backs. But as the winds of magic stir, other powers rise to contest it.
    I have seen the Lady, my brothers. She came to me from the waters and told me of the trials to come. This is why I call you here, so that Her summons may be answered. I call Errantry, a crusade to strike at the heart of the new darkness"


    -- The Lionhearted
  • Rebel4ever85Rebel4ever85 Registered Users Posts: 200

    They are the ultimate building tall faction in the game. Changing their ability to hold any province would promote aggressive expansion and thus seriously interfere with that.
    Unlike the other Elder Races (HE, DE, LM and Dwarfs, all of which don't really expand but wage wars for non-conquest related reasons) they actually are in a good place and behave appropriately.

    So wait, your saying that other races don't go out conquer but they do go out and fight and wood elves don't?

    Vengeance of the Mage Queen
    Now, the Wood Elves carried their vengeance northwest and into the bleak pine forests of Naggaroth. They had no desire to tarry in that land, for its woods were bitter and lifeless things, and the chill air sapped the heart of even the cruellest of Dryads. They soon brought Morathi’s fortress of Ghrond under siege. The Tower of Prophecy’s defences had been wrought to guard against attack from the frozen north, not one that had emerged from the forests of its own heartlands, and its outer walls soon shattered under the fists of Treemen. Desperate, Morathi sent messengers south to request aid from her son, the Witch King. Alas for the Hag Sorceress, Malekith had long since learned of his mother’s role in Allisara’s death. Though the Witch King had publicly forgiven Morathi her transgression, he now saw an opportunity for vengeance for his lost wife, bringing her to heel, and it was with grim amusement that he forbade any aid be sent north


    This is the example is the furthest i could find wood elves traveling and Athel Loren to Grond is pretty damn far. The Wild Hunt is all about going after enemies including outside Athel Loren.

  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,519

    They are the ultimate building tall faction in the game. Changing their ability to hold any province would promote aggressive expansion and thus seriously interfere with that.
    Unlike the other Elder Races (HE, DE, LM and Dwarfs, all of which don't really expand but wage wars for non-conquest related reasons) they actually are in a good place and behave appropriately.

    So wait, your saying that other races don't go out conquer but they do go out and fight and wood elves don't?
    Nah, they do the wild hunt, either to eliminate threads (putting down Morghur for example) or just to relieve Orion's bloodlust. They just wreck stuff (mostly people) and don't conquer anything though, as the areas outside their special woods are of no interest for them.
    What I wanted to say about the other Elder Races is that they are a bit to focused on expansion in TW. Druchii raid, Dawi grudge, Lizardmen fight Chaos and High Elves intervene for their "allies"(pawns). But none of them really spread (the LM actually CAN'T as they depend on working spawning pools), sticking to their home territory and projecting power instead. For the Asrai that's implemented well.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,867
    I'm not a big fan of wood elves in overall gameplay theme, just not my style, but they fit their lore pretty dang good in my opinion.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,324
    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.
  • Ironhawk97Ironhawk97 Registered Users Posts: 326
    At most, I would let them build up the settlements that directly affect their forests to T3, and then give them some stronger default garrisons. An update to garrisons probably needs to happen across the board.

    I actually like the WE and VCoast explicitly because they don't need to concern themselves with painting the map, even though it's possible to do so if you really want to.
  • Kyler_883Kyler_883 Registered Users Posts: 349
    The Wood Elves play style is about playing tall than playing wide. Which is a unique experience and separates them from the rest.

    They don't give a flying F about what happens in the world unless it's a SERIOUS problem in that it will affect them as well.

    They should be considered an order faction than neutral because they are an order faction I think that's the only thing that needs to change for them. Like when Chaos comes to destroy the world they would take action to save it. They DID take action to save it.

  • saj1987saj1987 Registered Users Posts: 202

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 7,099
    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Yes it is, it’s also the richest forest because of the ports.

    I like that they are a tall faction and should stay that way. They need stronger end game units to accentuate that: fairy dragons, emerald dragons, elemental of beasts, true flight waywatchers etc.

    they should be able to keep less armies compared to others, but their armies should be the deadliest in the game.
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • SagezSagez Registered Users Posts: 319
    Wood Elves Rework was ok but i have some complaints:

    - AI can't use teleports and thats lame
    - Who said that their AI behave like Wood Elves should? During my WH2 playthroughs Sisters conquer the whole Naggarond, that's not being isolationists...
    - Playing tall would be more encouraged if tier V buildings would give some special benefits, income or various bonuses. Like even tier V ''barracks'' building could give some extra bonus to distinguish them from other races.
    - Tech tree (pun intended) is too short : (
  • overtaker40overtaker40 Registered Users Posts: 834
    I think this is the point. Have smaller armies, ambush, hit the enemy while they are weak. Create and disband armies when necessary.

    Higher recruit ranks, reduced global recruitment. The wood elves have the most fun campaigns and I hope CA doesn't increase their campaign strength.
    I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.
  • Kyler_883Kyler_883 Registered Users Posts: 349
    edited April 9
    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Wait can the Wood Elves fully colonise Avelorn now? I thought they got the Gaen vale as a city and that's it? Can they use the other two towns within the province as well?
  • overtaker40overtaker40 Registered Users Posts: 834
    edited April 9
    Kyler_883 said:

    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Wait can the Wood Elves fully colonise Avelorn now? I thought they got the Gaen vale as a city and that's it? Can they use the other two towns within the province as well?
    The can l colonize any settlement, they are just outposts though and there are no province edicts or anything.
    I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.
  • Gangstamonkey214Gangstamonkey214 Member Registered Users Posts: 220
    lucibuis said:

    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Yes it is, it’s also the richest forest because of the ports.

    I like that they are a tall faction and should stay that way. They need stronger end game units to accentuate that: fairy dragons, emerald dragons, elemental of beasts, true flight waywatchers etc.

    they should be able to keep less armies compared to others, but their armies should be the deadliest in the game.
    literally none of those things exist in warhammer besides the elemental of beasts which im sure they'll get for free whenever it gets added.
    Warcraft **** wont be added to Warhammer and Wood elves are dangerous enough as is
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 2,374
    Wood Elves are fine. And btw yes you can get into the empire business with WE you just need to calculate
    and plan ahead, section off areas that can be defended by chokepoints.

    I finished a paint-the-map WE campaign before they got their last DLC. It worked.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    I haven’t played wood elves yet in ME but can they say take out Alarielle And build in her captial or is it still considered as a outpost? Magical forest climate should be buildable for Wood elves for sure

    How would wood elves fair in jungles? Maybe jungles could have better outposts ?
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,324
    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Nay. Gaen Vale is, but the other settlements in the province can only become outposts.
  • overtaker40overtaker40 Registered Users Posts: 834

    I haven’t played wood elves yet in ME but can they say take out Alarielle And build in her captial or is it still considered as a outpost? Magical forest climate should be buildable for Wood elves for sure

    How would wood elves fair in jungles? Maybe jungles could have better outposts ?

    There is "always" a delimah before turn 60(? from memory) that ends up with avalorn getting raised and a chaos army appearing. thats the easiest way to take it and doesnt involve an immediate war with the high elves. just try to get relations as high as you can with tyrion before it happens. there are currently 7 full magical forests outside athel loren and they really stand out, you would have noticed them if you have played in the area they exisit in.
    I like all the races. Equally. Wood elves are just the first among equals.
  • ProcessingProcessing Czech Republic Registered Users Posts: 699
    lucibuis said:

    saj1987 said:

    Fully colonisable Avelorn would be enough for me. It's a bit odd they can't do that.

    Isn't it already? I'm pretty sure it is.
    Yes it is, it’s also the richest forest because of the ports.

    I like that they are a tall faction and should stay that way. They need stronger end game units to accentuate that: fairy dragons, emerald dragons, elemental of beasts, true flight waywatchers etc.

    they should be able to keep less armies compared to others, but their armies should be the deadliest in the game.
    They are already the strongest faction on the battlefield in Warhammer II.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,685
    Wood Elves are fine and offer a distinct playstyle on the campaign map (and are great in many configurations on the battle map). I can understand if this playstyle isn't for everybody but it should be fine to have campaign diversity. Even more so when we'll end up with 25+ races.

    9 game 1 races (4 Base + WoC, BM, WE and Norsca DLCs and Bretonnia FLC)
    6 game 2 races (4 Base + TK and VCoast)
    9+ game 3 races ( 6 base + DoC special race + OK + CD at least for CP)

Sign In or Register to comment.