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Key Buildings and their Effect on Multiplayer Balance

13

Comments

  • tzero316tzero316 Junior Member Posts: 16Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I agree, building stats should be either decreased and put closer to center, or all give same stats. Maybe there could be another building that gives a very small bonus to the owners army, but there are alot of them spread out around the outside, while two key buildings sit near the center.
    Campers shame not only all FoTS players, they shame us all.

    I pledge to fight with my Shogun 2 brethren to defeat this evil, but FoTS players, do you?
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    The only issue I have with dojos is that there are maps where they aren't directly in the middle of the map which can allow one player to get a good dojo early while the other player doesn't get one that benefits their army as much.

    As for the stat increase from dojos I'm fine with them. It wouldn't be a problem if one player couldn't cap a dojo before the other player can really contest it to keep it neutral if they were always in the middle of the map.
    Though, that wouldn't matter all the time like that one game with Sony? in the A1C in low lands. him having the sword dojo much closer to him yet he was never able to completely capture it.

    @Dark, gotta see to believe?
    @Indy, cav without back up is useless, simple to deal with.
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    i can said that some game i have won is because i have a good dojo near me that make my army unbeatible especialy sword dojo, when i got it near me i can simple do a berserker charge i will win the cav figth and olsmot any meele figth but when i dont get it ir the dojo near me isnt good im force to retread and play defensive trying to get some at my favour.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Any real competitive RTS game shouldn't have unbalanced maps or key locations, you'd never see such a thing in sc2, coh, supcom2, dow2 etc... in a normal MM map rotation.

    And there are a few maps where the dojo is yours for sure especially with fots where you can cap even faster.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    ya but your also forgetting that this is CA were talking about.

    Though which map you referring to is unbalanced? i thought all the maps had some sort of symmetrical shape?
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    None are unbalanced when it comes to their design alone without dojos... only when you start a MM match and one player can cap a dojo and control it that benefits him greatly without the other player being able to contest it because dojos aren't in the middle of some maps.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    But most maps have 3 dojos, and usually the 3rd is in the middle
  • spicykoreanspicykorean Senior Member Posts: 1,632Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    An alternative could be to have the "unevenly" placed dojos always be the same kind.
    For example, one shrine close to each deployment zone. Hope that makes sense.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    An alternative could be to have the "unevenly" placed dojos always be the same kind.
    For example, one shrine close to each deployment zone. Hope that makes sense.

    Absolutely. Either that or the dojos could be moved to better (more central) places OR the bonuses could be removed.

    CA could also sit down and actually make the maps in question balanced, although that might be hard to pull off since they basically apply to 2 different games.

    Any single one of these would be enough, let's hope they do something soon.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,014Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    This thread has gotten a fair bit of attention, more than I had hoped for honestly. So perhaps CA will take a look at it and agree that something should be done.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I'm pretty sure they will. Besides, a CA member (can't remember his name right now) has stated that they do look at most if not all of the threads, so most everything relevant will be forwarded to the right people.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    There should be no maps at all with uneven dojos when the dojos have a possibility of offering one side a greater advantage.

    If all maps that had uneven dojos spawn all the same kind of dojos it would have to be one that benefits both sides equally of course. I do like the variation though with different kinds of dojos offering different bonuses, just I'd rather see ALL maps with the dojos in the middle. It's much more fun to fight over dojos instead of free given ones.

    I'd also like see in the next TW a means of being able to END matches because right now even though it's not very common you can have people that purposely draw out the game just to be a *****. The timer that starts when all dojos are capped is a flawed system, it's an improvement, but still very much flawed.

    TW MM battles is the only RTS I've played online were there isn't a true means implemented in the battles to make sure they can end. Command points combined with a reinforcement system would be a great fix to this problem I think. Many may not like the idea because of the lack of realism, but really this is MM (competitive scene!) and not SP and those types of players should stick to SP who want nothing but realism even though this game in general is far from realistic.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    There should be no maps at all with uneven dojos when the dojos have a possibility of offering one side a greater advantage.

    If all maps that had uneven dojos spawn all the same kind of dojos it would have to be one that benefits both sides equally of course. I do like the variation though with different kinds of dojos offering different bonuses, just I'd rather see ALL maps with the dojos in the middle. It's much more fun to fight over dojos instead of free given ones.

    I'd also like see in the next TW a means of being able to END matches because right now even though it's not very common you can have people that purposely draw out the game just to be a *****. The timer that starts when all dojos are capped is a flawed system, it's an improvement, but still very much flawed.

    TW MM battles is the only RTS I've played online were there isn't a true means implemented in the battles to make sure they can end. Command points combined with a reinforcement system would be a great fix to this problem I think. Many may not like the idea because of the lack of realism, but really this is MM (competitive scene!) and not SP and those types of players should stick to SP who want nothing but realism even though this game in general is far from realistic.

    Lots of truth in this post. I'd go with the evenly distributed dojos as well. As a means for a match to end I'd prefer a system based on victory points. Perhaps holding buildings will give points and after gathering a certain amount of them before your opponent can do it you will win the game. The only way to escape this would be to destroy you.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,014Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    AMP I'm not sure what you mean by "command points combined with a reinforcement system". What exactly do you mean by that?
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    He means like company of heroes, or battlefield conquest mode where you start out with a certain number of points (or command points) and that you lose them slowly over time if your opponent controls more key objectives than you do.

    I like the idea. I also think the objectives should be in the centre line of the maps.
    RedStag
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    @Dark, gotta see to believe?
    I cant believe it can be done, thats why I'm offering to hail you as a god if you can prove it can be done.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    game with me then~
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    game with me then~
    my gaming time is really limited every week so I dont know when that could happen, that's why I asked for a video. If you can give me your steam Id I'll add you and message you when we're both on, I think mine is lAPlDarkasSilver but honestly I don't remember exactly.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    give me a clan group name, will make it simpler.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    give me a clan group name, will make it simpler.
    I'm nominaly one of the mods of AngryPlayers then. But thats just so I can move the clan attack here target thingy since I'm the only player with a rank lower than 80,000

    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/angryplayers
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Ah I see, dont get on much eh.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,014Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Perhaps the coming patch on Monday will fix the key building issues and some other stuff? Not going to hold out hope but that would be pretty awesome
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    He means like company of heroes, or battlefield conquest mode where you start out with a certain number of points (or command points) and that you lose them slowly over time if your opponent controls more key objectives than you do.

    I like the idea. I also think the objectives should be in the centre line of the maps.

    That's exactly what I mean. Company of Heroes, Dawn of War, and World in Conflict are good examples of control points in a RTS.
    Indypride wrote: »
    AMP I'm not sure what you mean by "command points combined with a reinforcement system". What exactly do you mean by that?

    Well you would have command points like those games I mentioned plus a reinforcement system that allows you to collect funds over time that you can spend to bring new units into the battlefield.

    So instead of dojos giving an instant universal bonus to your whole army when you cap one you would slowly over time collect funds and of course the more dojos under your control the faster you collect those funds. And when you control more dojos than you opponent he will slowly lose points and when your opponent runs out of command points you win of course. You could also add a domination buzzer like WiC has where when you control all the dojos your opponent will lose his points much faster than he would at the high rate of controlling all dojos.

    I wish we had something like that as well as true unit los and able to load right into the map and deploy and pick your army at the sametime along with a way to punish those or prevent those from dropping out avoiding losses. Someday maybe someday... :/
  • spicykoreanspicykorean Senior Member Posts: 1,632Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    unfortunately, Just because a topic gets alot of attention, it doesn't mean that CA will do anything about it.
    The map and dojo imbalances has been a problem since the release of the game last year.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    unfortunately, Just because a topic gets alot of attention, it doesn't mean that CA will do anything about it.
    The map and dojo imbalances has been a problem since the release of the game last year.

    True, but the fact that they randomized the buildings tells me that they care to make it better. It just wasn't the way to do it.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I don't have a problem with randomized buildings because that's not the problem. The problem is the distance between dojos and players on some of the maps. All dojos should be in the middle of the map when they give bonuses that can benefit certain setups more than others, so you need to be able to contest the dojos and not give free caps.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,014Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Eh I guess we will find out on Monday when they release the patch
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Probably not gonna be changed since CA have more important priorities anyways.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,014Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I wish CA was a bigger company, and had more manpower. I feel like the reason it takes them forever to patch stuff is because they dont have enough people employed to dedicate anyone in particular to patches. With that said, they still do a good job of listening to the community and reading the forums, which I appreciate.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Sad part is some of their manpower that is used for balancing seem to have very little experience in gaming. Many of these balance issues are clear as day at least I would think they are even for your average gamer.
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