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Multiplayer - what we're working on next!

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  • st3nm4nst3nm4n Senior Member Posts: 180Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    please make bows usefull its all melee
  • st3nm4nst3nm4n Senior Member Posts: 180Registered Users
    edited March 2012
  • razzyrazzrazzyrazz Banned Posts: 149Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Haha exactly. This is the most broken a total war multiplayer has ever been.
  • ercolesptrercolesptr Junior Member Posts: 6Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    How about giving avatars with higher prestige more bonus points. At the moment an avatar can only have 20 points maximum to improve it being at Bronze, Silver or Gold. This way it does not make sense to increase your prestige because there is much to loose and nothing to gain. If say Silver would give 25 or 30 points and Gold 35 or 40 it would make more sense to increase the prestige of the avatar.
  • iWarsawiWarsaw Senior Member Posts: 367Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    ercolesptr wrote: »
    How about giving avatars with higher prestige more bonus points. At the moment an avatar can only have 20 points maximum to improve it being at Bronze, Silver or Gold. This way it does not make sense to increase your prestige because there is much to loose and nothing to gain. If say Silver would give 25 or 30 points and Gold 35 or 40 it would make more sense to increase the prestige of the avatar.

    No. The rewards should be purely artificial. Different clothing for your avatar. You don't have to prestige. That is the whole point of it. It's just to show off your skill. At silver, or gold, you're already very skilled. Why would you need more points? Also think of the ungodly balance that would give silver over bronze, and gold over silver and bronze. I know then you could just play gold against gold, but that just makes it to much of a hassle to finding a game where everything is even. People are already complaining about shogun 2 vanilla vs FOTS ( I see no problem with it as long as you know what you're doing) Adding in extra points for your avatar which just continue to unbalance everything.
  • ercolesptrercolesptr Junior Member Posts: 6Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I do not agree with you. Many people do not upgrade their prestige level because they feel that it is not worthed and in effect it is so since it makes you restart almost from scratch without any useful gain. If the developers do not offer a bonus reward no one will upgrade his prestige level because no one will do something to get disadvantaged. Finally with regards to the balancing of the game, we are talking only about the avatar here and with its vast tech upgrade tree there is, 20 points are just not enough, so why not use the prestige upgrade to offer this!
  • sengmandsengmand Junior Member Posts: 18Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    SH2 multiplayer still doesn't work. Multiplayer crashes happen all the time. Games rarely go beyond 50 or so turns, desyncing or freezing. This is happening to a very large proportion of players. FotS is now out and the last game (Shogun2) is still not fixed and in the sort of state any reasonable person would expect a new product to be in.

    I.e it works off the shelf.

    The game is a complex, impressive product but like anything it should work and if it doesn't we should be able to get our money back. I've spent years reading the forums, following instructions for work-arounds, waiting for patches and reading complaints from customers getting shouted down by sycophantic toadies. The problem isn't us it's the game! The TW games from CA just never seem quite ready or able to carry the vision or scope of what they promise. If Blizzard can do it with WOW and other MMORPG's whats up with a two person head-to-head failing so often and so early?

    I've been a great fan of the TW series. I bought the original Shogun at release and have every game except Napoleon but I will not under any circumstances buy another CA product until I know I'm buying a robust game and not another rushed release which seems to be the case ever since SEGA.

    Single person is fantastic. Thanks. Just stop telling me the multiplayer is as good as it should be.
  • rouderoude Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    in multiplayer campaing me and my friend made it to turn number 100 almost without any trouble, only few crashes.

    after that, hell was released. we played in LAN and at first my friend lost connection if i moved a certain ninja character, he had to restart steam and shogun to be able to join the game again, i had to quit and load the save again too.

    we continued from the same turn and again when i treid to use the ninja and sabotage enemys army he crashed.

    next try... i first moved the ninja around and did som other stuff before trying to sabotage the army = crash

    and again we tried to make it work, u might wonder why use the ninja and not just switch turns but there was an huge army coming after my city and it had only few garrison units inside :D

    anyway we had to change turns and i lost the city >.<

    after changing turns i was able to use the ninja again. i think we made it to turn number 103 until we came across more trouble.. my friend kept going out of sync and it seemed like the save was totally ******, excuse my language but i dont know better words to discribe that **** we had to go trough. every time i entered battle, he crashed, no matter if he entered as an spectator or played as AI. we tried everything that we could think of. started from quicksave few turns behind ( i kept spamming ctrl + S constantly trough the whole game cuz i was waiting for the game to crash) but same thing..

    then we searched the forums for help and found fix, had to transfer my autosave to my friends pc and replace hes with mine, finally we were able to continue, it took mayby 2 or 3 turns when 1 of my citys got bugged.. if i used the citys reqruitment tab the game got rly RLY slow almost like my graphic card had turned itself off.. had so save and quit reload and it worked again but still i cant use that 1 castle.. fukushima..

    so yeah... i'd also like to state that this game has som serious issues.. like in my opinion total war series has always had, played them all, big time fan, otherwise GJ with FOTS, still.. best tw game so far. thank you and baibai then.

    edit: it seems like the forum did not excuse my language....
  • DevlinXIIIDevlinXIII Member Posts: 51Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    st3nm4n wrote: »
    please make bows usefull its all melee

    This x10 !!!!
    Make everyone more wary of ranged units as how it was in real life.
  • legolaslegolas Member Posts: 31Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    CA, please don't work on any other new game, just fix the bugs first ...
    «SEN» Mr. C
  • JacquestheApostateJacquestheApostate Senior Member Posts: 409Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    legolas wrote: »
    CA, please don't work on any other new game, just fix the bugs first ...
    You took the words out of my mouth. Best post in this thread.
    Listen to the people who buy the game!
    MAKE "ATTILA" a GREAT GAME!
    Plug pullers epitomize what a true loser is and always will be!
    Shogun II Avatar Campaign is the most fun I have had with Total War games!
    Gun Cav in Shogun II should have a Retainer!
    Give us another Avatar Campaign!
  • mudymudy Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Suggestion:
    I think Total War combat / melee multiplayer has a good chance to become world most popular esport (greater than Blizzard Starcraft / Warcraft series). What CA/SEGA must do is:
    - separate multiplayer combat from all Total War series and create a new team multiplayer rts game, without the map based strategy game.
    - players can choose battle based on TW series: medieval, shogun, empire, etc.
    - for each game, players can build their own army based on a fixed points/money.
    - there are 2 army, each can be played by upto 4 players as team (likely: left wing, center, right wing, and reserve).
    - lower resolution is acceptable, to maximize number of units in the field.
    - there are 4 basic battle framework:
    1. frontal assault (same points and ballance teritorial advantage for all team),
    2. attacker/defender (1 team attacking with greater points, while the other team defend their ground for limited time),
    3. castle/town siege,

    This Total War - Real Combat Simulation will be a great hit in gaming community. The major esport for the next couple of decade.
  • EagleScopeEagleScope Member Posts: 91Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Can you sort of our levels though, level 10's are common, I wanted a 2v2 with my mate, never mind the connection problem that kicked him, I had to face 2 level 10's at level 0! I haven't played since :(
  • VeritasVeritas Senior Member Posts: 301Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    mudy wrote: »
    Suggestion:
    I think Total War combat / melee multiplayer has a good chance to become world most popular esport (greater than Blizzard Starcraft / Warcraft series). What CA/SEGA must do is:
    - separate multiplayer combat from all Total War series and create a new team multiplayer rts game, without the map based strategy game.
    - players can choose battle based on TW series: medieval, shogun, empire, etc.
    - for each game, players can build their own army based on a fixed points/money.
    - there are 2 army, each can be played by upto 4 players as team (likely: left wing, center, right wing, and reserve).
    - lower resolution is acceptable, to maximize number of units in the field.
    - there are 4 basic battle framework:
    1. frontal assault (same points and ballance teritorial advantage for all team),
    2. attacker/defender (1 team attacking with greater points, while the other team defend their ground for limited time),
    3. castle/town siege,

    This Total War - Real Combat Simulation will be a great hit in gaming community. The major esport for the next couple of decade.
    I've always said that the sad thing is the potential this game has in MP. I agree with almost everything you've said. But CA would have to spend years on a game with 4 different eras. One would be preferable. But indeed, a separate game would be the way to go.
    RTK | Yoshida
  • spicykoreanspicykorean Senior Member Posts: 1,632Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    haha this game has some built-in anti-esport mechanics that would completely prevent it from being spectator friendly. Apart from obscurity, there are plenty of reasons why shogun videos don't have many views.
  • muhatmamuhatma Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    you must fix desyncs. It kills this game. Hours of playing are lost when it desyncs. If you really can't fix the problem, then the hack/fix of copying multiplayer files should happen automatically when a desync is detected. Also a desync should be searched for after every battle, action, or event. Desyncs can persist for several turns if no battles are fought, making them much more difficult to track down.

    You're losing a lot of fans. I bet if another game similar to this were produced, you'd be hard pressed to keep your current fans loyal for long. PLEASE increase the quality of your releases, not the quantity.
  • lordnovaslordnovas Junior Member Posts: 18Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    haha this game has some built-in anti-esport mechanics that would completely prevent it from being spectator friendly. Apart from obscurity, there are plenty of reasons why shogun videos don't have many views.

    I think the game is fun to watch being played but that's because I play it and understand a little bit of what's going on. I think the meta-game being played between two players looks exactly like top layer player. Its hard to distinguish the Minutiae of the game in time of success or failure if you have not spent a little bit of time with the game. However I think with more spec tools and a bit more explanation in the UI as well as some excellent commentary (which is there; the community is quality) and it could blow up e-sport style.
  • KocmocKocmoc Senior Member Posts: 252Registered Users
    edited June 2012
    The amount of changes needed to get the MP-part working properly is just too much to get done here, to write a few points and think, thats it, is just a joke and shows, that those kind of people have no clue whats really going on.

    This gametype never ever will make it to a good Game for the masses, its nothing you will play when you have 60 min of free time.
    The imbalance ist extreme, you had to cancle 70-90% of the content to even make it possible to balance it.

    You cant allow special units with different abilities, nor the different clanskills. If you play a good MP-game, like SC or WC3, than you need like 2-3 mins as new player to get into a MP game and you have the same chance (apart from experience) as the other players.
    In TW, at this stage, you need like 100-120 hours of playtime (as experienced player, if you are new you need 3 times as much) to get you units whith some experience, so you have at least a small chance.

    The same time, the MatchMaker is not working, it was obvous, that after the initial hyp, the new player would be "fecked", since they fight against lvl 10 fulltime.

    The game design dont work for MP. You have to cut the game down to a lvl, where everyone has the same chance.
    As you can see, i didnt spoke about the real gamebalance, which is a real big problem, but I wont start to speak about scouting range, LOS for missles, fatige penalties, support circles, routing points.... you get it.
  • PotetoChippuPotetoChippu Member Posts: 55Registered Users
    edited July 2012
    Kocmoc wrote: »
    The amount of changes needed to get the MP-part working properly is just too much to get done here, to write a few points and think, thats it, is just a joke and shows, that those kind of people have no clue whats really going on.

    This gametype never ever will make it to a good Game for the masses, its nothing you will play when you have 60 min of free time.
    The imbalance ist extreme, you had to cancle 70-90% of the content to even make it possible to balance it.

    You cant allow special units with different abilities, nor the different clanskills. If you play a good MP-game, like SC or WC3, than you need like 2-3 mins as new player to get into a MP game and you have the same chance (apart from experience) as the other players.
    In TW, at this stage, you need like 100-120 hours of playtime (as experienced player, if you are new you need 3 times as much) to get you units whith some experience, so you have at least a small chance.

    The same time, the MatchMaker is not working, it was obvous, that after the initial hyp, the new player would be "fecked", since they fight against lvl 10 fulltime.

    The game design dont work for MP. You have to cut the game down to a lvl, where everyone has the same chance.
    As you can see, i didnt spoke about the real gamebalance, which is a real big problem, but I wont start to speak about scouting range, LOS for missles, fatige penalties, support circles, routing points.... you get it.

    Agreed. People who have a competitive gaming background will see the balancing issues of this game. One of the biggest problem with this game is the RPG style mechanic it has for multiplayer. You should never have something like this especially for RTS games. Look at all the other big name RTS games, even the MOBA games like Dota 2 and LoL. None of them have extensive upgrading systems like the Avatar system.

    Competitive players will always steer clear from games like Shogun 2, especially those who play a lot of Dota, SC2 etc.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited July 2012
    I don't think the complexity of the game stands in the way of its success as it's an easy to play, hard to master kind of thing. There are many intricacies in games like SC2 as well. The way the mp is designed is what's not working. As the people above me said, there can't be RPG-like mechanics in a competitive MP setting. Everybody has to be on equal footing all the time as far as matchmade battles go. Non-ranked matches allow for custom settings. Random drops, retainer setups that encourage spamming to get the most out of them and uber powerful veterans with special abilities like hold firm don't work. Always remember the basics of this game's MP, rock paper & scissors. Swords must beat naginatas which beat spears which beat cav which beats swords. I have seen katana samurai disappear in 15 seconds when fighting yari ash veterans. This doesn' need an explanation, does it. Balanced armies must be capable of dealing with everything, but currently a well set up nagi sam spam has no real weakness. Even yari ash are much better than they should be when in spear wall. Give sword units a bonus vs naginatas/spears if you have to or implement an option to break a spear wall with infantry, anything. Remove hold firm from all units and give it to heroes (the really expensive ones - nobody really brings them because they don't have anything to offer otherwise), completely rework the veteran system as suggested in many threads to be fair for everyone, then you will have something to offer that won't frustrate anybody who is willing to learn how the game works.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • MayrzealMayrzeal Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited July 2012
    Hey, i've bought this game with a friend of mine, and we bought it because we wanted to play the multiplayer co-op.
    But.. there are loads of bugs (?) or other problems that are in the way. At times when 1 of us attacks, the other player (should) get
    the option the either spectate or what ever... so far we've managed to play 3 battles.. The rest of the time,when 1 of us attacked, the other never got the option to spectate or whatever. And so on there are many more problems that just dont allow us to play the
    game, so far, -even do im a great fan of the total war series- it's been a waste of money...

    I've been looking around for updates, but then i figured, steam does that automaticly so, the game should be up to date.
    And i've tried many more things that people suggested but nothing seems to help. At random points it just balls up.
    Weird thing is, when a battle worked, when i would press enter for next turn, my friend would get to see it was still my turn,
    whilest on my screen, i clearly have ti wait for him. Its just really annoying because we payed good money for a feature that doesnt seem to work for us :(

    MY question now is: Have we missed anything, a update i just overlooked or anything, or something else we're doin wrong?
    We really wanna play shogun but well.. :)

    Any feedback would be much appriciated.

    Cheers
    -May.
  • MayrzealMayrzeal Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited July 2012
    "Waiting for players to finnish loading 299seconds"

    but it does not change untill 1 of us leaves the game...
  • st3nm4nst3nm4n Senior Member Posts: 180Registered Users
    edited July 2012
    fix bows my bow samurai are getting 30 kills per match even if i win FIX BOWS they dont do **** or make them much cheaper like in
    rome still not enough cuz they dont do any damage at all
  • chubbyninja89chubbyninja89 Banned Posts: 1,053Banned Users
    edited August 2012
    Fix a bunch of stuff

    #1: Unnerf the Naginata Warrior monks! They should be elite units, but no CA's got to go and listen to a bunch of noobs and whiney babies who couldn't handle them. Their price should have been raised to 1000 or something, but now they REALLY need their stats to be unnerfed now to be able to handle all the guns of FOTS players. Also the unit cap on bow and matchlock monks should be increased from 2 bow monks to 3 and 1 gun monk to 2. The reason I say this is because I'v got 3 full vet monks vets and 2 gun monk vets and I'd like to be able to use them together.

    #2: The numbers of all the Shogun 2 units should get increased numbers for multi-player and all melee fighters should get a little buffed a little to cope with the the FOTS gun units. And on the subject of FOTS units, the FOTS elite infantry need to have their melee skill nerfed. The fact the US marines have 13 melee attack is so OP. The Elite infantry should have only 10 melee attack at max, maybe 11 for the US marines but no more. They should be all about laying down a lot of fire instead of shooting than being able to fight in melee.

    #3: The heroes all need their prices reduced to 1200 base koku, it's not fair to make them so exspensive. I get they're heroes and all but 1700 base koku is WAY too much even for a hero unit. Please CA if any of you read this this is a main thing that needs to be fixed.

    #4: I think the kiso ninjas should have their numbers increased, not to 100 or anything like that, but to like 60 ine large units and 80 at the most in ultra sized units. I think it would make them more effective and not so easy to just overwhelm. I say all this because they don't have too many more men in them than a hero unit.
  • Xtreme_ChaosXtreme_Chaos Senior Member Posts: 226Registered Users
    edited August 2012
    Please give all S2 players a baseline of 100 vet slots with +50 per prestige.

    As it stands there are some longtime generals who are only 10 star silver with over 150 vet slots, while every new player who works their way up to 10 star silver is left with roughly 60.

    Its as fair and balanced as Fox News.
  • OlegOleg Banned Posts: 5Banned Users
    edited August 2012
    Maybe you should make Shinsengumi more powerful in melee or(even better) let them use Banzai? In campaign it's expensive unit, but very powerful in melee because of this ability, but in multiplayer they are completely useless for their price... And they are samurai, but for some reasones Avatar's bonuses for "samurai morale" and "samurai attack" don't affect them. That's not fair.
  • ViCToRiaViCToRia Banned Posts: 1,297Banned Users
    edited October 2012
    Will the MP ranks ever be fixed ?
    By the way , 2v2,3v3 and 4v4 aren't working ,you loose all XP and clan tokens that you won from this type of battles.
  • m4x1um4x1u Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited October 2012
    Will Shogun 2 get more patches? Or did the focus fully switch to FOTS?
  • shrspeedbladeshrspeedblade Senior Member Posts: 313Registered Users
    edited October 2012
    I read so many of these posts and all I can think is, "I'm so glad I just decided to avoid the avatar multiplayer in S2 altogether!"
    :)
    <---- That's how I look after all the NTW I've played!
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited October 2012
    least its much better than NTW.
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