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FotS can be more than camping and do 65535?

YoritomoYoritomo Senior MemberPosts: 701Registered Users
On the 10.000 Koku matchmade land battles in Avatar Mode gameplay seem more flexible.

On 14.000 battles 8 from 10 Players bring a cheap high effective artillery unit and camp in deploy zone with the main force and just skimish around a bit, so the domination timer cant be set.

CA wont affort game servers and relie on Peer to Peer connection. Thats the solution vs camping? Not want to run into hidden fire Tosas and shelled to pices by arty just do 65535?

My question is, what happen on screen if both players bring cheap high effective arty and hide the expensive Line Infaspammy units in wood?
You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
Post edited by Yoritomo on

Comments

  • III IDOLIZE IIIIII IDOLIZE III Senior Member Posts: 118Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    My god, why cant people grasp the idea that this is a STRATEGY GAME!
    There are countless ways to obliterate arty campers...
    Be a command gen and use bombardment
    Use melee and rush
    Flank with cav...
    Use better arty and first person
    Flank with cav...
    Use your higher funds advantage of having better infantry to skirmish his men and render his arty useless in close quarters
    Flank with cav...
    Cap buildings and wait
    Flank with cav...
    Use spear levy in loose form as meatshields and bait his arty
    FLANK WITH CAV!!
    Do you see my point?
    Did you really have to post this on the forums to get a response...
    Use your head man, c'mon.
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Be a command gen and use bombardment - and see how their art survive with 19 of 20 units.
    Use melee and rush - and lose all your units vs a wall of guns and cav flanking it.
    Flank with cav - and be counter by oponet cav inside their lines of death.
    Use better arty and first person - ok go and play COD is more fun.
    Flank with cav - why 2 times?
    Use your higher funds advantage of having better infantry to skirmish his men and render his arty useless in close quarters -
    dosent mater all bullets can kill.
    Flank with cav - why 3 times?
    Cap buildings and wait
    Flank with cav - why 4 times?
    Use spear levy in loose form as meatshields and bait his arty - dont waste ammo.
    FLANK WITH CAV - (O___O)o ok i will do!!!
    Do you see my point?

    is more easy to counter all those moves as a art camper to be honest you can see what you oponet will do and be redy olso a art camper can bring cheap trops to keep numbers at his favor like black totoise is insane chear and good for camping moves.

    i can bring 1 lvl 9 art unit and 4 cav units, one 150 range vet and rest black totoise as spam and really good and to be honest art is soo fast unter 5 mins can use all ammo is a decent time and you have to wait 10 mins to win by dojos.....

    and what is 65535????
  • CyellCyell Senior Member Posts: 433Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I have yet to lose to an arty camper in 10k or 14k. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the arty... Just the player?

    That's an exaggeration ofcourse, but I do win something like 9 out of 10 battles with arty campers.
  • razzyrazzrazzyrazz Banned Posts: 149Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Those that say arty is easily beaten is insane. I **** most arty players because most are noobs but against a good player on most maps it makes winning much more difficult. When it is upgraded it does insane damage. Yes there are ways to minimize casualties and hide units etc. but eventually you need your cav and your general in the fight. One or two volleys into a cav fight can change the whole match. Not to mention the morale effect it has. The ability of arty to hit cav running perpendicular to the arty is so unrealistic. It targets better than a guidance system on a freaking abrams tank. The perfect lead over and over from 500 m lol. Then even if you do get a good flank on the arty all they have to do is limber it once they see you have a good angle of approach and its indestructible til they reinforce, **** your cav and resume firing.
  • crimson2404crimson2404 Member Posts: 46Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Play shogun 2, it’s not about slowly whittling down the enemy before line infantry so that it’s ok not to get the first shot off or having longer ranged units.
  • JohnnyCryptonJohnnyCrypton Member Posts: 30Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Why would you bring lvl 9 art unit, what a waste of money ^^
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    @Ernesto 65535 are the ELO Points from the Top 5 of 1vs1 ladder. Combined how they get there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_of_death Its funny to see how the developer combined this number to the historical Hack. Good counter post that hits the point.

    Of course every expirienced Player know: All Options that a designated attacker have, come handsome more fast and easy to be countered by a camper.

    In the past noob-box age with long range bow monks we had same discussion. Some people that argue, camping isnt a issue are the biggest campers of all.

    CA know the issue and want to prevent it, by the domination timer. 10 Minutes and easy to reset, start again on 10 Minutes after reset, is an attempt failed epicly tbh.

    lvl9 arty... in good hands, they do secure 300 to 500 Kills per battle, demolish every attempt to play a strategy game.

    @Cyell
    Didnt you mention somewhere else, that you have a 5 Star FotS Avatar atm? So you only have 10.000 koku matchmade battles.
    For some reason arty camping on 10.000 isn t a 100% win.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    i have seen ppl at 10 000 koku using art and black totise spam is very efective they keep numbers and can use art.
  • CyellCyell Senior Member Posts: 433Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Rank 9 actually, so 14k battles. And those of you with experience with arty please post some replays, I would really like to see it used effectively.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Perhaps it would help to have the countdown restart exactly where it stopped when the player loses a building. If he caps all dojos and holds them for 3 minutes, then loses 1 and regains it, the "new" countdown should start at 7 minutes. Shortening the countdown could also make the battles less dull.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yes let the timer start where it stopped would be a solution.

    ok i will post 5 Replays where arty do more than 300 Kills in matchmade battles and then what will you say?
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • AggonyDuckAggonyDuck Senior Member Posts: 3,586Registered Users, Smiley
    edited April 2012
    Arty getting more than 300 kills requires that the non-arty player plays passively. I regularly face artillery and hardly ever does the artillery get more than a 100 kills.
  • razzyrazzrazzyrazz Banned Posts: 149Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Ive never lost more than 150 to arty but it still ****s and has a huge effect on the battle. As I said most players who use it are noob but when u get a good player it dictates how the match will be played and can target your expensive units and/or your cav. It forces you to keep your general way back til you engage unless you are on a map with some serious reverse slopes. I wouldnt have a problem with it as is if it didnt track moving cav so accurately. If you think about a cannon of that era and the adjustments that would have to be made to change aim it is not even close to realistic to be able to shoot that fast and accurate. If infantry is coming at it I have no problem with how it is now.
  • CyellCyell Senior Member Posts: 433Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yoritomo wrote: »
    Yes let the timer start where it stopped would be a solution.

    ok i will post 5 Replays where arty do more than 300 Kills in matchmade battles and then what will you say?

    If you post 5 replays where a rank 9 armstrong scores 300 kills then I'd say at least the the almost 2k cannon was worth bringing; and assuming the other player wasn't an idiot. Because for the price of 1 rank 9 armstrong, it would have to kill both of my katana kachi and then some before you can justify its cost.

    At this point the cannon would simply be "balanced" since it costs the same, and takes up a retainer slot. If the cannon killed close to 400, and you can consistantly do this, then it would mean that it is slightly better at killing than most other units. On the other hand, if an arty is killing less than 300 men (which, btw, I have many replays of), then it would suggest that the cannon in question was cost-ineffective.
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    well i agree with cyel but i also believe arty destroys the game.. RED LINE CAMPING is the lame reality in 80% of the games in match made .Its not enjoyable and ruins the skills .Although i win the games against art campers sometimes (when iam sleepy mostly) it can be a ***** in certain maps .. And not fun most importantly
    Zarganis
  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    you want see arty used effectively play oboke gorge with someone, you have no arty the other person does, you can bring cav, it's 14k match that will wipe your smirk of your face
    and people who do comment on arty not being effective for the super cheap cost,
    spawn kills straight away, with super range will destroy players from the get go
    gen sniping, no matter where you hide him,
    wipes out units thats cost equal or more then it, makes siege not even worth playing, shrapnel shot can wipe out whole unit of cav etc etc etc
    Fear God, Honor King
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Depends on which map it is used on really - to me artillery is only ever a problem on oboke and maybe on occasion yamasaki chokepoint for me. By and large you can either win by capping all the dojos and hiding your army in a treeline or alternatively blitzing the camper as he sits on the red line. :)
    RedStag
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Instead of a timer they should have command points like CoH, DoH, and WiC.

    Arty being effective depends on the map, sometimes it can be a ***** and sometimes it doesn't do much of anything, but that also depends on who you're playing against. Arty in the hands of a good player always hurts a little bit. And you can't go by just kills alone, you have to take into account what that arty has killed. Smart players go for expensive cav or your most expensive line unit. And the idea is to damage them some and start on a new target, if you get the idea.
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yes i agree Cyell you get the point. No matter anyone say, you can create arguments to protect beloved game features. Happend to releaseday Warrior Monks, happend to TOW Missle Fire Rockets, happend to Loanswords, happend especially to heavy gunners at the DLC release, happen to Naginata Warriormonk Cav.

    Cant you hear the cat-ching? You need that new stuff to be competitive. Of course every "poor" boy has the opportunity to toggle off mixed avatars. Thats why it is what is now.

    Cyell i respect you as a good player, but i dont understand, why u protect Arty like it is now?

    What will change?

    If Arty gets a reasonable price increase, can just fire on slow moving targets effectively, cant auto aim the General on long range but get canister shots at short range. And of course cant fire in 3rd Person mode over maximum range.

    This alpha stage major bugged game feature screws up gameplay in combination with the kevlar protected gun crew.

    Get a lvl9 unit that dictates gameplay is not worth just 2000, it cant be weighted in pure Gold, so valuable it is.

    Perhaps i should do as some people do, arty exploid to death and shut up. Then the yelling is louder from the victims of the exploid.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • razzyrazzrazzyrazz Banned Posts: 149Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Yoritomo wrote: »

    Perhaps i should do as some people do, arty exploit to death and shut up. Then the yelling is louder from the victims of the exploit.


    Ive contemplated this a few times but I just wouldnt be able to live with myself being a lazy fat camper. I like the feeling of defeating a camper and watching there little encampment crumble. Unfortunately on some maps with the terrain making it nearly impossible to attack w/o losing some really important units and a key building 10 feet from their spawn making it too easy for them to avoid the timer, ez mode is too hard to overcome and requires a pretty big mistake by the opponent to win. Against good players this mistake doesnt happen and you're screwed.
  • CyellCyell Senior Member Posts: 433Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I'm not really defending cannons. It is just from personal experience that 9 out of 10 people that bring cannons are usually not very good players. It use to be that each time I see someone with a rank 5+ armstrong I would dread the match; but after 100 or so games in MM battles however, I've come to basically consider it a free win (more or less). So IMO there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that unit.

    Just to be clear, I am not saying fighting a camper (with or without a cannon) is fun; in fact it is annoying and frustrating, which is made even more annoying and frustrating when your opponent brings a cannon. In fact I was taken aback by how limited the cannons is when I started to see it in action.

    Now I have to admit, I've only see 2 or 3 people bring lvl 9 cannons, so my comments may not reflect that particular sub-type of the unit. But, again, when I did get matched up against the people that brought them, I won. Which as I said before, for 1900 points, it should technically be able to kill more than 1900 points worth of units and should still be considered "balanced" because in addition to the cost, it requires a retainer slot, anchors your army making it inflexible, and almost forces you to sit near the deployment zone for fear of the cannon be killed by cavalry.

    The only exception ofcourse is 1 or 2 maps, such as gorge, but that's 1 map in like 30 something maps. Bring a couple of ninjas to bomb the cannon. So really a unit that's really OP on 1 map, and down right bad in every other map is not that big of a deal. Above all else though, if you're having a hard time winning even though you have all those advatages mentioned above (ignoring a couple of specific maps), it might not be the cannon. And I will tell you that so far, every match I've lost in the last 30+ MM games has been from someone who did not use a cannon, and used his/her cavalry more effectively than I did. If anything yari ki needs a price increase.
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I guess you have noticed that some maps come very often in matchmade and some are rare. I never had Gunma Field since FotS came out but Daisetzuan, Oboke, Yamasaki, Shinano and the new maps are really often. Crossroads and Sanriku ria next to Cubu Pass are real invitations.

    You got 3 Arty Types, of course on some maps they are quite useless cause you cant place them well. On most maps you can reach a nice point to shell from, in time or right at start.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
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