A Fimir sized hole

Gangstamonkey214 · June 2022

Remember when CA surprised us with the norsca race pack at the end of TW1 life cycle. Everyone was really happy to see norsca so fleshed out and then surprised again when a really old school race, the Fimir, were also apart of their roster. They were from old editions and CA added them despite no one really expecting it.
Will we ever see this happening again, TW2 had Zoats of all things added, but are there any small races like this that could be added at this point, has CA gotten to them all already? I guess Cathay was the Fimir of TW3, a real old reference that got really fleshed out.

What do you guys think what obscure and old race/units could we see next?

Captain_Rex#1635 · June 2022

Hobgoblins.

DarthEnderX-#6513 · June 2022

I think Amazons, Halflings, Albion and Jade Vampres fall into that Fimir category of "we might get them, but only as part of another race".

Nazjax#2857 · June 2022

Albion ? Nah. Too small in game. I like the idea of Celtic people but... I can't see it coming.

Estalia/Tilea/Border princes ? As Southern realms merged with DoW ? Probably. Alone ? I don't think it's possible.

Araby is unfortunately dead, I want them but... I have no more hope for them.

Ind. Yes they are my favorite choice, I want indian humans and tigermens.

Khuresh. Yes they are my second favorite choice. Nagas of Khuresh

Southlanders : I like the idea but I don't think it's possible, maybe as a unit in DoW ?

Amazons follow the same, maybe in DoW but alone I don't think it's possible.

Halflings is the same, maybe one unit for DoW but as a full race it's even more impossible since... they are not supposed to be good fighters and will be poor faction.

Gnomes : I dislike them in most universe they are. I hope they won't come, at least Halflings have LOTR vibes and are fun. Gnomes are useless IMO. Dwarfs are just better.

Norse Dwarfs : As a FLC/DLC start position for Dwarves why not but as a full race ? No.

Eonir : Same as Norse Dwarfs, as a start position for WE yes but as it's own it's a no.

Hobgoblins is probably possible and going to happens. Im not against them they can be cool but I hope they are not the priority over Ind or Khuresh who are more interesting IMO.

Kurgan/Hung : Meeeeeeh, I think with they will still be Norsca like in ME. I think Hobgoblins are better for steppic like factions choice and overhaul they are too small.

Beastfiend : As a unit for Beastmen or demons why not but as a race no.

Menfish : Hard to put them in game but could be nice. I think it will never happens too.

Apemen : Im pretty sure Cathay will have some of them with Monkey king as units choice like Fimir were for Norsca.

Mahtmasi : What is that ? Never heard of. It will never come IMO. The idea of tyranid/silithid like creature is not bad but I don't see how it's possible in game.

Lost bloodlines : Honestly could be fun to see but I want CA to work on more important bloodlines before they start anything else. We need Neferata, Styrgoi, Blood dragons and Necrarch. We only have necromancers and Von Carstein for now. And of course we need Nagash in priority for undead.

Artjuh90#8868 · June 2022

Zoats should not have been added to the WE.
i will keep saying this. they have no lore connection fighting with the WE.
Fimir was ok for Norsca given that they also are obsessed with the chaos gods and Norsca roster is kinda small and had to be build mostly from the ground up.
WE had so many cool option with forrest units like the treekin, treeman and Dryads. now for me it is to focussed on just elves with a spark of treeunits (which even the HE can choose with alariele) and nothing really unique.
it is not like they don't have good strong ap cav in the same DLC... missed chance there (ends rant on different topic)

as for Hung and Kurgan they can be added to Norsca with DLC
Albion don't see happening given it is just 1 province they can't really expand upon and to give that a full roster (which they are going to have to do or face backlash) i do think it is waste of effort
DoW not my choice to add but given howmutch fans there of of them i say wouldn't mind
araby not going to happen cause rasism (it is not like they are going to depict arabs like culteraly accurate. so the arguement of rome 2 will not stick cause that is a historic depiction but a parady which has it's flaws) see how there hasn't been a prince of persia for example since the woke BS began while being a great franchise.

amazones i don't know where you would put them, kinda a albion situation but different. yes Lustria is big but also kinda crammed with LL factions already and you would be able to just fit 1-2 LL max. but then again same could be said about norsca and they where added.

beastfiends cool future content 4 beastment

HeresyHound · June 2022

Artjuh90 said:
Zoats should not have been added to the WE.
i will keep saying this. they have no lore connection fighting with the WE.

Literally the only lore connection they have is to the WE. In 3e the Allied Contingent states that Wood Elves are pretty much the only people they associate with. In the core rules the bestiary section on Zoats state that Elves have tales of Zoats coming to their aid against goblins. And that Zoats only really associate with woodland creatures like the elves and the occasional human Druid. And 8e has the thing about Wood Elves seeking out Zoats to learn magic from.

If Zoats were going to be added, it was going to be for Wood Elves. Too bad they went cheap on them.

Captain_Rex#1635 · June 2022

Artjuh90 said:
Zoats should not have been added to the WE.
i will keep saying this. they have no lore connection fighting with the WE.
Fimir was ok for Norsca given that they also are obsessed with the chaos gods and Norsca roster is kinda small and had to be build mostly from the ground up.
WE had so many cool option with forrest units like the treekin, treeman and Dryads. now for me it is to focussed on just elves with a spark of treeunits (which even the HE can choose with alariele) and nothing really unique.
it is not like they don't have good strong ap cav in the same DLC... missed chance there (ends rant on different topic)

as for Hung and Kurgan they can be added to Norsca with DLC
Albion don't see happening given it is just 1 province they can't really expand upon and to give that a full roster (which they are going to have to do or face backlash) i do think it is waste of effort
DoW not my choice to add but given howmutch fans there of of them i say wouldn't mind
araby not going to happen cause rasism (it is not like they are going to depict arabs like culteraly accurate. so the arguement of rome 2 will not stick cause that is a historic depiction but a parady which has it's flaws) see how there hasn't been a prince of persia for example since the woke BS began while being a great franchise.

amazones i don't know where you would put them, kinda a albion situation but different. yes Lustria is big but also kinda crammed with LL factions already and you would be able to just fit 1-2 LL max. but then again same could be said about norsca and they where added.

beastfiends cool future content 4 beastment

Still haven’t swallowed the pill eh? Zoats are awesome!

Biggles#4266 · June 2022

Basically I just want a full Fimir army list as they were there when I was a kid. Just give me that.

And Araby and Nippon.

Nagash as a VC RoR.

bli-nk#6314 · June 2022

Halflings I think we will definitely see at some point- most likely as mercenaries and an Ogre RoR.

Hobgoblins seem fairly likely give GW's recent work on them for AoS.

Jade Blooded in some representation also seem likely as they have been mentioned so often in the forums, during interviews, and on discord and unlike other things like Araby or Amazons, never conclusively denied.

Beastfiends I think have an outside chance of 1 or 2 units being represented somehow.

Southern Realms/DoW seems very likely but I am not sure if CA will name units after Estalia/Tilea/etc or just use the named army book units as inspiriation seeing as a couple are already present as RoRs.

Araby- denied as conclusively as anything I've seen in Warhammer as their own race but I would be quite surprised if DoW makes it that 1 or 2 Araby influenced units don't also make it in.

Norse Dwarfs- at least a shoutout to them with Grombrindal is likley in my opinion.

Ind/Khuresh- like Araby not as their own race but represented by some Monkey King units and perhaps eastern themed mercenaries in a DoW roster.

DarthEnderX-#6513 · June 2022

Ichon said:
Beastfiends I think have an outside chance of 1 or 2 units being represented somehow.

I think monoGors are going to just straight up replace Beast Fiends, given that the most recent interpretations of monoGors shows them to basically be gor/daemon hybrids.

Ben1990#8909 · June 2022

Gangstamonkey214 said:
Remember when CA surprised us with the norsca race pack at the end of TW1 life cycle. Everyone was really happy to see norsca so fleshed out and then surprised again when a really old school race, the Fimir, were also apart of their roster. They were from old editions and CA added them despite no one really expecting it.
Will we ever see this happening again, TW2 had Zoats of all things added, but are there any small races like this that could be added at this point, has CA gotten to them all already? I guess Cathay was the Fimir of TW3, a real old reference that got really fleshed out.

What do you guys think what obscure and old race/units could we see next?

Many of those should be made into minor factions packs with their own lords, heroes and units that specific factions can get.
Hobgobs...if they do them well I can see them as a major faction (I mean they tore a hole in Cathay's bastion and did a lot of damage when they poured in so normal wolf-riding not!Mongol Hobgobs they are not).
Ind, Khuresh and Nippon also should be made their own factions.
Araby...honestly...time will tell.

GreenColoured#2445 · June 2022

Artjuh90 said:
Zoats should not have been added to the WE.
i will keep saying this. they have no lore connection fighting with the WE.
Fimir was ok for Norsca given that they also are obsessed with the chaos gods and Norsca roster is kinda small and had to be build mostly from the ground up.
WE had so many cool option with forrest units like the treekin, treeman and Dryads. now for me it is to focussed on just elves with a spark of treeunits (which even the HE can choose with alariele) and nothing really unique.
it is not like they don't have good strong ap cav in the same DLC... missed chance there (ends rant on different topic)

as for Hung and Kurgan they can be added to Norsca with DLC
Albion don't see happening given it is just 1 province they can't really expand upon and to give that a full roster (which they are going to have to do or face backlash) i do think it is waste of effort
DoW not my choice to add but given howmutch fans there of of them i say wouldn't mind
araby not going to happen cause rasism (it is not like they are going to depict arabs like culteraly accurate. so the arguement of rome 2 will not stick cause that is a historic depiction but a parady which has it's flaws) see how there hasn't been a prince of persia for example since the woke BS began while being a great franchise.

amazones i don't know where you would put them, kinda a albion situation but different. yes Lustria is big but also kinda crammed with LL factions already and you would be able to just fit 1-2 LL max. but then again same could be said about norsca and they where added.

beastfiends cool future content 4 beastment

You realize Treekin, Treemen, and Dryads already exists right? At most they could add Branch Nymphs and Treekin Elders as more elite versions of their resources units. And while I have no qualms using unit champions to pad a roster (LM need Revered Guardians as a Temple Guard side grade that doesn't take a year to deal with infantry), when given the opportunity I will ALWAYS pick a completely new unit with a unique silhouette. Especially when the unit fits thematically and aesthetically as well as Zoats.

Also

many a Wood Elf Spellsingers will seek out a Zoat in order to learn from it, but as the Elves of Athel Loren find Zoats no less elusive than do other beings, very few succeed in their search......snip......When intruders close or danger threatens, Zoats will rouse the trees and undergrowth to crush and strangle interlopers,

Orontes#2247 · July 2022

Hobgoblins! The great Horde must ride and swarm over the earth!

Slayer_Yannir#8069 · July 2022

Gotta compliment you on the creative titling of the thread. This isn't what I expected to find at all and I'm positively surprised.

Gangstamonkey214 said:

A few of these are probably permanently retconned. I'd expect atleast Gnomes and S'nethen(these are NOT the Snakemen of Khuresh btw but a different breed of snekdudes) to be retconned out of existence. The Lost Bloodlines might also stay lost forever.

When CA gives us the Monkey King for Cathay, I hope they take the opportunity to implement an AI Apemen faction in the Southlands. It kinda bothers me that there's nothing unique to the Southlands going on below Nehekhara. This would remedy that big time.

Sultschiem#8734 · July 2022

I expect a LOT of obscurer factions to be part of Dogs of War/Southern Realms, including:

- Albion
- Amazons
- Halflings
- Araby (If they are definitely out for CA...)

And the Core of Tilea/Estalia and Southern Realms Units.

The Jade-Blooded I would 100% expect to see either as an expansion to VC or Cathay .

Biggles#4266 · July 2022

Sultschiem said:
I expect a LOT of obscurer factions to be part of Dogs of War/Southern Realms, including:

- Albion
- Amazons
- Halflings
- Araby (If they are definitely out for CA...)

And the Core of Tilea/Estalia and Southern Realms Units.

The Jade-Blooded I would 100% expect to see either as an expansion to VC or Cathay .

Basically I agree with the above but expect I guess there will be a Jade Blooded LL for VP as VC have too many fan favourites that should be in game.

Also Ind and Kuresh must come with those wacking great landmasses there.

PLHenry#4565 · July 2022

Yannir said:
Gotta compliment you on the creative titling of the thread. This isn't what I expected to find at all and I'm positively surprised.

Gangstamonkey214 said:

A few of these are probably permanently retconned. I'd expect atleast Gnomes and S'nethen(these are NOT the Snakemen of Khuresh btw but a different breed of snekdudes) to be retconned out of existence. The Lost Bloodlines might also stay lost forever.

When CA gives us the Monkey King for Cathay, I hope they take the opportunity to implement an AI Apemen faction in the Southlands. It kinda bothers me that there's nothing unique to the Southlands going on below Nehekhara. This would remedy that big time.

Gnomes were brought back in 4th edition RPG. Their main city is hidden in the Midden Moors but their race was decimated by Grom the Paunchs invasion. They are now a bitter, broken people that survive by hiding.

Commissar_G#7535 · July 2022

Sultschiem said:
I expect a LOT of obscurer factions to be part of Dogs of War/Southern Realms, including:

- Albion
- Amazons
- Halflings
- Araby (If they are definitely out for CA...)

And the Core of Tilea/Estalia and Southern Realms Units.

The Jade-Blooded I would 100% expect to see either as an expansion to VC or Cathay .

Dogs of War are not made more interesting by just being a junkyard for other races and themes just because you want them in the game and don't see any other realistic approach.

DarthEnderX-#6513 · July 2022

Commissar_G said:
Dogs of War are not made more interesting by just being a junkyard for other races and themes

Complain to GW then, because that's exactly how they used them. All those races were already in the DoW.

HeresyHound · July 2022

Commissar_G said:

Sultschiem said:
I expect a LOT of obscurer factions to be part of Dogs of War/Southern Realms, including:

- Albion
- Amazons
- Halflings
- Araby (If they are definitely out for CA...)

And the Core of Tilea/Estalia and Southern Realms Units.

The Jade-Blooded I would 100% expect to see either as an expansion to VC or Cathay .
Dogs of War are not made more interesting by just being a junkyard for other races and themes just because you want them in the game and don't see any other realistic approach.

That’s not how they were in 5e, but 6e was very clearly moving towards that direction with all the random RoR and Ghazak able to lead DoW armies. And based on the RoRs that we never saw before they scrapped DoW completely it was going to get weirder.

I also don’t know why people think there is somehow a “core” of Estalian units. Estalians haven’t had any major representation since 3e on TT

Slayer_Yannir#8069 · July 2022

PLHenry said:

Yannir said:
Gotta compliment you on the creative titling of the thread. This isn't what I expected to find at all and I'm positively surprised.

Gangstamonkey214 said:

A few of these are probably permanently retconned. I'd expect atleast Gnomes and S'nethen(these are NOT the Snakemen of Khuresh btw but a different breed of snekdudes) to be retconned out of existence. The Lost Bloodlines might also stay lost forever.

When CA gives us the Monkey King for Cathay, I hope they take the opportunity to implement an AI Apemen faction in the Southlands. It kinda bothers me that there's nothing unique to the Southlands going on below Nehekhara. This would remedy that big time.
Gnomes were brought back in 4th edition RPG. Their main city is hidden in the Midden Moors but their race was decimated by Grom the Paunchs invasion. They are now a bitter, broken people that survive by hiding.

Huh. That's pretty cool, didn't know that. The decimation part's not cool though..

Djau#5149 · July 2022

Commissar_G said:

Sultschiem said:
I expect a LOT of obscurer factions to be part of Dogs of War/Southern Realms, including:

- Albion
- Amazons
- Halflings
- Araby (If they are definitely out for CA...)

And the Core of Tilea/Estalia and Southern Realms Units.

The Jade-Blooded I would 100% expect to see either as an expansion to VC or Cathay .
Dogs of War are not made more interesting by just being a junkyard for other races and themes just because you want them in the game and don't see any other realistic approach.

That's the point of DoW.

sykall#1105 · July 2022

ArneSo said:

Artjuh90 said:
Zoats should not have been added to the WE.
i will keep saying this. they have no lore connection fighting with the WE.
Fimir was ok for Norsca given that they also are obsessed with the chaos gods and Norsca roster is kinda small and had to be build mostly from the ground up.
WE had so many cool option with forrest units like the treekin, treeman and Dryads. now for me it is to focussed on just elves with a spark of treeunits (which even the HE can choose with alariele) and nothing really unique.
it is not like they don't have good strong ap cav in the same DLC... missed chance there (ends rant on different topic)

as for Hung and Kurgan they can be added to Norsca with DLC
Albion don't see happening given it is just 1 province they can't really expand upon and to give that a full roster (which they are going to have to do or face backlash) i do think it is waste of effort
DoW not my choice to add but given howmutch fans there of of them i say wouldn't mind
araby not going to happen cause rasism (it is not like they are going to depict arabs like culteraly accurate. so the arguement of rome 2 will not stick cause that is a historic depiction but a parady which has it's flaws) see how there hasn't been a prince of persia for example since the woke BS began while being a great franchise.

amazones i don't know where you would put them, kinda a albion situation but different. yes Lustria is big but also kinda crammed with LL factions already and you would be able to just fit 1-2 LL max. but then again same could be said about norsca and they where added.

beastfiends cool future content 4 beastment
Still haven’t swallowed the pill eh? Zoats are awesome!

Yes they are. They have become on of my favorite units of the entire game. I love my magical snap-turtle centaurs charging out of the woods with treemen and elves!

Also it is now my headcanon thats dragon ogres were either a tribe of zoats, or a closley related species, who were further mutated after making their pact with the chaos gods.

cb4n28 · July 2022

I think the inclusion of the Southern Chaos Wastes on the Immortal Empires map definitely puts Beastfiend units on the table. CA is going to need to get creative to flesh out the four Chaos Demon races and a couple Beastfiend units definitely fits the bill

HeresyHound · July 2022

So I know some people won’t like this suggestion but hear me out: GW is hinting at a sweeping mercenary/DoW rework that would have a very wide variety of mercs.

They said they were looking back to 3e for inspiration for The Old World which we have definitely seen with the stuff they have talked about. But almost everything we have seen or they have mentioned has an underlying theme: mercenary forces in 3e.

Tilea and Estalia had Border Prince Settlements in that map. They were both part of the Old Worlder mercenary forces (which is really the last time Estalia mattered on TT despite what half the community thinks).

Hobgoblins and their Hobhounds were another mercenary contingent.

Half-Orcs were their own mercenary contingent as well.

Norse Dwarfs? Three of the units in the Norse mercenary contingent.

The only thing that has been mentioned that wasn’t a mercenary in 3e is the Centaurs but I believe they would sometimes go work for people in the west (mainly elves). Need to source that though.

Arthas_Menethil#3421 · July 2022

Border Princes: Their problem is their units if they have any is going to depend entirely on which race was in that area as the Border Princes are meant to be 1 region factions basically instead of the one big faction the game has put
Tilea/DoW: Has a chance of happening
Estalia: has a change of getting in through the Dogs of War.

SaintCorn#3148 · July 2022

HeresyHound said:
So I know some people won’t like this suggestion but hear me out: GW is hinting at a sweeping mercenary/DoW rework that would have a very wide variety of mercs.

They said they were looking back to 3e for inspiration for The Old World which we have definitely seen with the stuff they have talked about. But almost everything we have seen or they have mentioned has an underlying theme: mercenary forces in 3e.

Tilea and Estalia had Border Prince Settlements in that map. They were both part of the Old Worlder mercenary forces (which is really the last time Estalia mattered on TT despite what half the community thinks).

Hobgoblins and their Hobhounds were another mercenary contingent.

Half-Orcs were their own mercenary contingent as well.

Norse Dwarfs? Three of the units in the Norse mercenary contingent.

The only thing that has been mentioned that wasn’t a mercenary in 3e is the Centaurs but I believe they would sometimes go work for people in the west (mainly elves). Need to source that though.

Centuars were mentioned by GW, but in relation to the Eastern Steppes.

" Clearly, at this time Kislev was a vast empire indeed, its territories encompassing lands said by some to be haunted by Hobgoblins, Centaurs and Half-Orcs, though who can say which of these, if any, are true?"

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/

HeresyHound · July 2022

SaintCorn said:

HeresyHound said:
So I know some people won’t like this suggestion but hear me out: GW is hinting at a sweeping mercenary/DoW rework that would have a very wide variety of mercs.

They said they were looking back to 3e for inspiration for The Old World which we have definitely seen with the stuff they have talked about. But almost everything we have seen or they have mentioned has an underlying theme: mercenary forces in 3e.

Tilea and Estalia had Border Prince Settlements in that map. They were both part of the Old Worlder mercenary forces (which is really the last time Estalia mattered on TT despite what half the community thinks).

Hobgoblins and their Hobhounds were another mercenary contingent.

Half-Orcs were their own mercenary contingent as well.

Norse Dwarfs? Three of the units in the Norse mercenary contingent.

The only thing that has been mentioned that wasn’t a mercenary in 3e is the Centaurs but I believe they would sometimes go work for people in the west (mainly elves). Need to source that though.
Centuars were mentioned by GW, but in relation to the Eastern Steppes.

" Clearly, at this time Kislev was a vast empire indeed, its territories encompassing lands said by some to be haunted by Hobgoblins, Centaurs and Half-Orcs, though who can say which of these, if any, are true?"

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/

Yes sorry I meant they were the last thing mentioned that we don’t currently have, but unlike the rest they weren’t a part of a mercenary contingent in 3e. I can’t check the 3e Bestiary in the Core Rules right now but I thought it implied they did merc work though.

Edit: never mind nothing explicit about them doing Merc work in 3e but hey almost everything else was a merc and GW could totally make them mercs I suppose.

PLHenry#4565 · July 2022

I do think that CA could probably do with starting to embrace a half-race concept at times, possibly as part of Lord Packs.

A race like the Amazons could be justified in an LP that grants them one LL, but a lot of their units are shared with the Lizardmen (primarily the monsters & monsters carrying artefacts). It'd be cheaper for CA to make as they would only need to make humanoid units as part of the DLC, while the bulk of their forces are made of up of ex-Lizardman stuff. They could then be paired up against one of the TWW3 races. This would then grant TWW3 fans an LL, while also giving us a small new race.

Obviously not all of the above races could work with that, but factions like Halflings (Empire), Norse Dwarfs (Dwarfs), etc could work with this concept.

NVNM · July 2022

Pygmies. The game needs PoC representation.

SaintCorn#3148 · July 2022

NVNM said:
Pygmies. The game needs PoC representation.

People of Color can and should be represented in Warhammer by fleshing out underexplored areas of the map with real-world cultures that could easily be made into Warhammer factions.

It doesn't need the Pygmies which are primarily based off of older racist caricatures of tribal people.

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