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Future Improvement to Volkmar's Crusade in the Southlands?

lcmiracle#6727lcmiracle#6727 Registered Users Posts: 1,023
So we know that Volkmar was first introduced in the Grim and the Grave DLC in TWWi, where he was matched with Ghorst the meme. Rich in this interview stated that the team agreed wasn't great and wasn't "his finest hour" (timestamp around 04:49) and that it was a conservative choice due to being the very first head-to-head DLC.

So we know Volkmar's faction mechanic has likely been changed to conform to his book hunt instead of the Electoral system. He should also rely on Sigmarites, as in, reinforcements somewhat like Huntsmarshal's Expedition's mechanics, but costs zeal, or something. But he should also get the two arch lectors of the Empire: Kaslin and Aglim (not LLs, just unique Lords, maybe unlockable via quests). And hopefully the Arch Lector Lords can get renamed something else as well (or, failing that, restrict it to Volkmar's faction). Also, all the Empire RoRs in that DLC are part of Volkmar's crusade, so I hope to see them be prioritze towards Volkmar's faction. Knights Griffons and Knights of Sigmar's Blood can be interesting Sigmarite RoRs to be added in a later rework.

Anyways, these are just my ideas for a Volkmar rework, someday. Thoughts?

Comments

  • RikRiorik#9890RikRiorik#9890 Registered Users Posts: 12,090
    I have no idea what they should do beyond what they're already going to do as concerns his hunt for the Books of Nagash. I don't necessarily think he needs big changes. I personally did enjoy the Huntsmarshall's reinforcements as that made the game a little harder. Adding it for the Volkz wouldn't be terribad.

    I was surprised and glad I found out that his skill tree had been reworked in ME though. That gave me a nice little playthrough with him because I now found him much more fun.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,079
    He could very well be my first IE play through.

    The book hunt will be enough for me but if they add enough stuff to take him to the Huntmarshall's dlc then that'll be awesome. I can't think of much to add apart from reinforcements and a LH but maybe they'll go a completely different direction.
  • afverrall#1754afverrall#1754 Registered Users Posts: 1,337
    Maybe see whats there before ypu decide what needs improving.
  • TancredIIQuenelles#3970TancredIIQuenelles#3970 Registered Users Posts: 1,330
    Knights Panter with their crusades to Araby founding history would be cool

  • UgandaJim#4927UgandaJim#4927 Registered Users Posts: 687
    Maybe just wait until he is out and you know everything before you propose a rework?
  • afverrall#1754afverrall#1754 Registered Users Posts: 1,337

    Knights Panter with their crusades to Araby founding history would be cool

    I'm hoping the knights panther and the knights of the white wolf come in the next empire dlc.
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 5,332
    I just really want to have a true zealot faction. Kostaltyn kinda missed the mark.
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    Copy-pasting the Huntsmashal's reinforcement mechanic to Volkmar would be an unimaginative move by CA. Volkmar deserves to get his own unique mechanics rather than just reusing content from other factions. It is bad enough that he is stuck with the Tomb Kings hunt for the books of Nagash rather than getting a proper mechanic centered around the different faiths and gods of the Empire. If Volkmar is to be given a reinforcement mechanic it would be more interesting to see CA adapt the "Pharao's Servants" mechanic from Troy.

    No need for Kaslain or Aglim to be made unique, they are just named Arch Lector lords so are easily created by the player themselves. From a lore perspective neither would be following Volkmar to the Southlands since they are tied to their offices back home. The Grand Theogenist leaving is bad enough but some of the most senior members (including one with Elector status) going with him would cause no end of problems within the Cult and also give those pesky Ulricans a fighting chance in the political games of the Empire.

    The generic tabletop lords were called Arch Lectors, CA is not going to rename them or restrict them to Volkmars faction. As with the Empire RoRs I fail to see how you improves the Volkmar experience by cutting content from other Empire factions. Why should Karl Franz not get access to an essential Empire lord type in his campaign? If anything Arch Lectors will be even more important in Warhammer 3 due to the hordes of Chaos and Undead that will be invading the Empire.


    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • lcmiracle#6727lcmiracle#6727 Registered Users Posts: 1,023
    edited July 18
    KN_Gars said:

    No need for Kaslain or Aglim to be made unique, they are just named Arch Lector lords so are easily created by the player themselves. From a lore perspective neither would be following Volkmar to the Southlands since they are tied to their offices back home. The Grand Theogenist leaving is bad enough but some of the most senior members (including one with Elector status) going with him would cause no end of problems within the Cult and also give those pesky Ulricans a fighting chance in the political games of the Empire.

    See, the thing is, there are only two Arch Lectors, and they are named. The Arch Lector general type was included only because they were in 8th edition. If the AI is allowed to spam them, which they did for a while after G&G due to them being cheaper, at least make them (not Arch) Lectors

    Also Kaslain followed Volkmar on his crusade into Sylvania in Sigmar's Blood. He is a fervent Sigmarite and extremely loyal to Volkmar.
  • lcmiracle#6727lcmiracle#6727 Registered Users Posts: 1,023
    KN_Gars said:

    The generic tabletop lords were called Arch Lectors, CA is not going to rename them or restrict them to Volkmars faction. As with the Empire RoRs I fail to see how you improves the Volkmar experience by cutting content from other Empire factions. Why should Karl Franz not get access to an essential Empire lord type in his campaign? If anything Arch Lectors will be even more important in Warhammer 3 due to the hordes of Chaos and Undead that will be invading the Empire.

    And in 6th edition Empire Generals were called Elector Counts, doesn't mean it's reasonable to have a game with potentially several dozens of generals in a game to all be Elector Counts. Make far more sense to renamed them in later editions. TT representation had the fact that one player can get only a handful of lords in an army in mind, the game does not.

    As for how does limiting unit rosters make it fun -- that's how the Huntsmarshal's campaign is fun. First it's thematic, it gives a sense of being cut off from home (which he is) and promotes careful use of high-tier units; second it incentivises certain play -- namely to gain the special resources to access more high tier units. Lastly, unlocking more and more high-tier units by crusading builds upon the sense of a haphazrd b and of zealots eventually grow into a horde of rigtheous fury, it is satisfying.
  • Pr4vda#6038Pr4vda#6038 Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 2,326
    It would be the perfect timing to give Luthor Huss as a LL or a LH ... He would greatly help the Empire against all form of Chaos and Vampirism WH3 is bringing...
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    lcmiracle said:

    KN_Gars said:

    No need for Kaslain or Aglim to be made unique, they are just named Arch Lector lords so are easily created by the player themselves. From a lore perspective neither would be following Volkmar to the Southlands since they are tied to their offices back home. The Grand Theogenist leaving is bad enough but some of the most senior members (including one with Elector status) going with him would cause no end of problems within the Cult and also give those pesky Ulricans a fighting chance in the political games of the Empire.

    See, the thing is, there are only two Arch Lectors, and they are named. The Arch Lector general type was included only because they were in 8th edition. If the AI is allowed to spam them, which they did for a while after G&G due to them being cheaper, at least make them (not Arch) Lectors

    Also Kaslain followed Volkmar on his crusade into Sylvania in Sigmar's Blood. He is a fervent Sigmarite and extremely loyal to Volkmar.
    CA cheefully ignores far more important lore than the fact that there are only two Arch Lectors, for example Gelt is running around with Kurt Helborg's Runefang. Clearly CA copied GW and went with the rule of cool and called the generic lord "Arch Lector" rather than the more proper "Lector". And the Lectors are also limited in number with only 18 according to Tome of Salvation. So even with a name change there is the risk that the AI will spam more than exist in the lore. While called Arch Lectors the lord archetyp clearly represents not only the Arch Lectors but also the Lectors, Theogenists and High Priests of Sigmar who serve in a fighting role at a higher level of command.

    You do realise that "was included only because they were in 8th edition" is an odd argument when discussing a game that is based on 8th edition? Also the Arch Lectors were added as lords in the 7th edition Empire army book.

    The problem with Sigmar's blood is that it ignored the the actual lore for the Arch Lectors when it comes to their position and role in the cult of Sigmar as it turns them into Volkmar's loyal henchmen rather than the key religious and political figures they are. As Arch Lectors of the North and South respectivly they are responsible for fully half the Empire on top of their duties as Lectors of Talabecland and Wissenland. These men are major figures in their own right and if they go of to Sylvania let alone the Southlands it has serious effects on the ability of the Cult of Sigmar to function in the long run. One of the reasons why Volkmar can go crusading is that the Arch Lectors are there to cover for him.


    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    lcmiracle said:

    KN_Gars said:

    The generic tabletop lords were called Arch Lectors, CA is not going to rename them or restrict them to Volkmars faction. As with the Empire RoRs I fail to see how you improves the Volkmar experience by cutting content from other Empire factions. Why should Karl Franz not get access to an essential Empire lord type in his campaign? If anything Arch Lectors will be even more important in Warhammer 3 due to the hordes of Chaos and Undead that will be invading the Empire.

    And in 6th edition Empire Generals were called Elector Counts, doesn't mean it's reasonable to have a game with potentially several dozens of generals in a game to all be Elector Counts. Make far more sense to renamed them in later editions. TT representation had the fact that one player can get only a handful of lords in an army in mind, the game does not.

    As for how does limiting unit rosters make it fun -- that's how the Huntsmarshal's campaign is fun. First it's thematic, it gives a sense of being cut off from home (which he is) and promotes careful use of high-tier units; second it incentivises certain play -- namely to gain the special resources to access more high tier units. Lastly, unlocking more and more high-tier units by crusading builds upon the sense of a haphazrd b and of zealots eventually grow into a horde of rigtheous fury, it is satisfying.
    An 'error' that was criticised at the time and GW got it right in all other editions of the Empire army book before and after 6th. My personal suspicion is that they just wanted to sell more of the Elector Count models, after all they removed large parts of the Empire roster in 6th edition in order to "encourage" people to buy the new and more expensive models that released at the time.

    While true CA can hardly be criticised for following GWs lead. Would it be more loreful if the Arch Lector was just the Lector? Certainly but it has no actual effect on the gameplay and after 6 years of GW approved usage of the term 'Arch Lector' CA is not going to change it. It is one of those thing where one either has to use mods or accept the imperfections.

    The question was how removing content from other Empire factions i.e Karl Franz, Gelt and Markus Wulfhart improve Volkmar's campaign. It is those 3 campaigns you suggested removing content from, not Volkmars.
    I quote
    (...)the Arch Lector Lords can get renamed something else as well (or, failing that, restrict it to Volkmar's faction)


    If the Arch Lector lords are restricted to only being available to Volkmar's faction it is a massive change to the Empire as a whole since it removes content people have paid for from 75% of the Empire campaigns. The Arch Lectors are also designed by CA to be a part of the Empire tool box. Removing them from most of the Empire campaigns will lead to serious problems with the campaign balance and an alltogether unfun experience in a game where the threat from Chaos and the Undead will be greater than ever.




    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
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