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Tree Kin - Forest Stalk Aura

RasovashRasovash Registered Users Posts: 2
edited August 12 in Warhammer Battle Feedback
This is not intended to be a discussion on if forest stalk is a good mechanic or not but rather ways to implement gameplay to in better align with the associated lore.

Essentially the change that I would be suggesting would be to classify the Tree kin unit as a forest. By doing this any unit embedded within the Tree kin would have all of the benefits associated with being in a forest. These buffs include accuracy, melee defense and hidden. I think from a gameplay point of view it is very interesting. It would almost create a symbiotic relationship between the tree kin and the associated unit. One unit protecting the other.

While this would be a buff to the wood elves that is not generally why I am suggesting this change but more from a point of creating gameplay that varies from other races. Rather than just having a unit be a tree in an army make the trees a defining role in the army.



Post edited by CA_Will on
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Comments

  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 18,939
    another blob tool , what ever can be useful on calculator game mode

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    I don't like forest or water buff abilities or attitributes. I made a mod to reduce these down to speed slows, charge slows and reductions in charge bonus since CB should be related to normal charge speed. I think they are unrealistic, and table top didn't have them;

    however, I think this is worth looking into for CA. In particular single entities on foot should be harder to see on foot. Units with stalk should be able to use units without stalk as cover assuming they are the same or smaller size class. It's called disappearing into a crowd and it's a real skulking action.

    Wood Elves were supposed to be able to make their own forests. Get your wild wood rangers, and lets do this.
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,685
    i dont think its a good idea to make a unit count as a forest, but something like this should have been (and could still be) done if CA ever gets around to giving WE lore of Athe loren.

    on a unit its basically permanent and can be done to your whole army by spreading 3 or 4 treekin around, so thats not good, but as a spell it could be interesting.


  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    I do like the idea of hiding infantry lords in troop though, especially assassins. Infantry should boost their hiding.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 2,003
    The lore of athel loren would involve something like this.

    If CA get round to adding it, which they absolutely should it's crazy they haven't yet.

    Oh and a wardancer hero

    And wardancer dances

    And more spites

    And aspects

    Sigh, so under developed to how they should be
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,685

    The lore of athel loren would involve something like this.

    If CA get round to adding it, which they absolutely should it's crazy they haven't yet.

    yup, like every other DLC race got their own unique lores added, beastmen, TK, coast, eshin, even chaos has them now. and WE stuck with only 5 lores, and 2 are only available on a lord.


  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    A magical acorn item for a wizard hero or lord could do the trick. I don't think the Lore of Athel Loren is that compelling outside of the forest growth/placement. We have the Horn of the Hunt. We have majestic ethereal cavalry.

    The Lore of Athel Loren has a lot of overlap with the existing Wood Elf lores of life, beasts, and shadows. I would add Lore of Death to show the duality of the wood elves as well as the power of angry spites, but I don't think the Lore of Athel Loren was ever compelling beyond the power to plant trees in the path of your enemies.
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,685
    edited August 12
    i dont know about that, i think lore of athel loren could be very interesting if interpreted well

    Treesinging: trees summon
    fury of the forest: single target direct damage spell (something wood elves dont have)
    hidden path: +stalk, strider and speed would be a nice interpretation ( though strider and physical resist is closer to the rules.
    twilight host: fear+terror, another useful spell, since WE dont have many ways to do that.
    Ariels blessing: a heal (breaks the monopoly of lore of life) could add resurrection to make it more unique
    Call of the hunt: massive MA, damage and charge buff with rampage.

    so it would be quite a versatile mix of spells with a mix of buffs, damage, mobility, and leadership spells.


    Other lores they really should have are Death, Heavens, Light and either Metal or Fire (yes wood elves use lore of metal and fire in lore, especially in forging)


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,909
    Ah yes free instant penalty to large. Its like welf isnt autowin enough
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  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    Loupi_ said:

    i dont know about that, i think lore of athel loren could be very interesting if interpreted well

    Treesinging: trees summon
    fury of the forest: single target direct damage spell (something wood elves dont have)
    hidden path: +stalk, strider and speed would be a nice interpretation ( though strider and physical resist is closer to the rules.
    twilight host: fear+terror, another useful spell, since WE dont have many ways to do that.
    Ariels blessing: a heal (breaks the monopoly of lore of life) could add resurrection to make it more unique
    Call of the hunt: massive MA, damage and charge buff with rampage.

    so it would be quite a versatile mix of spells with a mix of buffs, damage, mobility, and leadership spells.


    Other lores they really should have are Death, Heavens, Light and either Metal or Fire (yes wood elves use lore of metal and fire in lore, especially in forging)

    Tree Singing: Drycha has dryad summon. We don't need to give WE summoning to everyone.

    Fury of The Forest: This was supposed to turn forests into AOE damage which made it very terrain reliant in literal translation. They have damage spells, and they should also have Lore of Death. Also we have Awakening the Wood which should cover this theme even if it doesn't do damage. Maybe it should.

    Hidden Path: They have Loec's Shrowd. It's not a spell, but not everything needs to be.

    Twilight Host: Should have Lore of Death.

    Ariel's Blessing: This was just a poor man's Lore of Life on TT.

    Call of the Hunt: We have the Horn of the Hunt. This doesn't need to be a spell.
    yst said:

    Ah yes free instant penalty to large. Its like welf isnt autowin enough

    Nobody said it had to be instant. This is one of the few abilities I would prefer it had a casting time and took several seconds to grow into place, so maybe 10 seconds to prepare from start to finish.


    It would be interesting to see CA make a Lore of Athel Loren with mixed spells that closely match the TT lore.

    Awakening of the Wood

    Regrowth

    Aspect of the Dreadknight

    Spirit Leech

    Curse of Anraheir

    Wyssan's Wildform


    Something like that. How would you make a Lore of Athel Loren mix tape out of the existing lores. Could be a legendary hero or something.
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,685
    Bastilean said:



    Loupi_ said:

    i dont know about that, i think lore of athel loren could be very interesting if interpreted well

    Treesinging: trees summon
    fury of the forest: single target direct damage spell (something wood elves dont have)
    hidden path: +stalk, strider and speed would be a nice interpretation ( though strider and physical resist is closer to the rules.
    twilight host: fear+terror, another useful spell, since WE dont have many ways to do that.
    Ariels blessing: a heal (breaks the monopoly of lore of life) could add resurrection to make it more unique
    Call of the hunt: massive MA, damage and charge buff with rampage.

    so it would be quite a versatile mix of spells with a mix of buffs, damage, mobility, and leadership spells.


    Other lores they really should have are Death, Heavens, Light and either Metal or Fire (yes wood elves use lore of metal and fire in lore, especially in forging)

    Tree Singing: Drycha has dryad summon. We don't need to give WE summoning to everyone.

    Fury of The Forest: This was supposed to turn forests into AOE damage which made it very terrain reliant in literal translation. They have damage spells, and they should also have Lore of Death. Also we have Awakening the Wood which should cover this theme even if it doesn't do damage. Maybe it should.

    Hidden Path: They have Loec's Shrowd. It's not a spell, but not everything needs to be.

    Twilight Host: Should have Lore of Death.

    Ariel's Blessing: This was just a poor man's Lore of Life on TT.

    Call of the Hunt: We have the Horn of the Hunt. This doesn't need to be a spell.
    yst said:

    Ah yes free instant penalty to large. Its like welf isnt autowin enough

    Nobody said it had to be instant. This is one of the few abilities I would prefer it had a casting time and took several seconds to grow into place, so maybe 10 seconds to prepare from start to finish.


    It would be interesting to see CA make a Lore of Athel Loren with mixed spells that closely match the TT lore.

    Awakening of the Wood

    Regrowth

    Aspect of the Dreadknight

    Spirit Leech

    Curse of Anraheir

    Wyssan's Wildform


    Something like that. How would you make a Lore of Athel Loren mix tape out of the existing lores. Could be a legendary hero or something.
    tree summon is nothing like drychas summon, i dont mean treekin, i mean the spell spawns actual stationary trees/forest area. i thought it was obvious what i was talking about.

    you're talking as if every spell has to be some ground breaking new technological marvel to be considered worthy of being a new spell, but every spell in every lore has multiple spell that are similar to it, there are only so many different "types" of spells, shall we remove lore of fire cos it has a damage buff, magic missile and vortex spells, like every other lore?

    not every spell has to be a fancy new amazing thing. it can be a useful lore that offers things that the other lores cant. e.g. death doesnt have a heal, life doesnt have direct damage etc etc.

    my "mixtape" would be something like:

    tree singing: nothing else exists like this so wont suggest anything
    fury of the forest: spirit leech+awakening (can also combine 2 types of abilities together)
    Hidden path: Skitterleap
    twilight host: aspect of dreadknight
    Ariels blessing: nehek (not aoe)
    Call of the hunt: Mantle of Ghorrok



  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    Nah, I am not saying it has to be ground breaking. I am saying we might already have a spell that covers it.

    I think Call of the Hunt was a lot more like Birona's Timewarp with a large AOE. This is probably the ultimate offensive buff spell at the moment to be honest.

    Ariel's magic didn't bring units back to life. She wasn't that powerful I don't think. From what I remember it gave regeneration. Might be interesting to see a spell that lasts a really long time but heals very slowly.

    Branchwraith magic could replace Shadows with Death and more readily match the lore in my opinion.

    Pendulum doesn't seem like the lore of Athel Loren to me.
  • Loupi#8512Loupi#8512 Registered Users Posts: 3,685
    Bastilean said:

    Nah, I am not saying it has to be ground breaking. I am saying we might already have a spell that covers it.

    I think Call of the Hunt was a lot more like Birona's Timewarp with a large AOE. This is probably the ultimate offensive buff spell at the moment to be honest.

    reading the rules for it it says its cast on single target and causes the target to move towards the nearest enemy. It sounds like a very powerful single target offensive buff with rampage to me.


  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,909
    Bastilean said:


    Nobody said it had to be instant. This is one of the few abilities I would prefer it had a casting time and took several seconds to grow into place, so maybe 10 seconds to prepare from start to finish.

    Ppl r making them into a walking forest lol what did they think gonna happen. And that free forest buff heh
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  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,906
    I'm not sure encouraging blobbing is the right move here.

    Treekin are still objectively bad, but a lot of monstrous infantry is in a bad place. I wish CA went with speed increase when it comes to them, because then you could actually use them as a defensive tool.
  • BloodyStreamBloodyStream Registered Users Posts: 246

    I'm not sure encouraging blobbing is the right move here.

    Treekin are still objectively bad, but a lot of monstrous infantry is in a bad place. I wish CA went with speed increase when it comes to them, because then you could actually use them as a defensive tool.

    I think they will do well in domination for holding objectives. Plus the ROR has a stronger niche now that there are more units with fire damage. But yeah pretty meh in land battles (unless they got buffs)
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    Calling a forest could be a pre-battle army ability. Definitely a unique one!

  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 2,910
    edited August 13
    Loupi_ said:

    reading the rules for it it says its cast on single target and causes the target to move towards the nearest enemy. It sounds like a very powerful single target offensive buff with rampage to me.

    Here's the Call of the Wild Hunt



    I can see I was wrong about the spell. Your single target cast interpretation is correct.

    Single target buffs like that seem to be over priced and not efficient use of your winds of magic. Cathay has one just like that for the yang magic.



    Admittedly dragons are probably one of the top choices for single target buffs.
    Post edited by Bastilean on
  • RasovashRasovash Registered Users Posts: 2
    1. Tree kin and melee units - Only gives 15% melee defense usually not worth the risk.

    2. Hidden - It could still be beneficial to keep some vulnerable safe or to force your enemy into unfavorable engagements. It could see some use but very situational.

    3. Tree kin and Archers - Archers get a 50% bonus to their accuracy. This would make a huge impact on their overall damage output and amo efficiency even at long ranges without the downside of large trees blocking your shots. There are two ways I see people using this.

    You can add your archers in the frontline to get the extra accuracy bonus at the beginning of the fight and then pull back your archers to a safer location.

    The second is to lock formation and set the stance to walking so that both units move at the same speed and use your archers to skirmish. Since most of your archers can fire while moving.
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