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Your attitude towards Helman Ghorst

24

Comments

  • DrJammatDrJammat Registered Users Posts: 498
    I like an underdog, I'd find it disappointing if the only factions we could play were the lauded powerful characters who we expect to do well. I'm happy to see the likes of Ghost, Tretch, Alberic etc.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 20,883

    Djau said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    you think Nechrachrs, Lahmian, Strigoi and Blood Dragon will all be seperate factions and not a part of VC? lol
    I think he means more like Ikit Claw, Throt the Unclean, etc.
    well he said "a whole new faction"
    Race = Skaven, Empire
    Faction = Skryre, Moulder
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 38,446
    Shrug.
    "It's no fun fighting people weaker than you." - The Beast

    "There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla

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  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 8,390
    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    My issue with VC was Mannfred being the owner of Drakenhof AFTER vlad was brought back. Worse even Ghorst of all people being the owner or sub owner of drakenhof, that's just nuts.
    Now that both were moved away, I am very happy. Also Isabella is finally a legendary hero as she should be.

    Vlad was literally the FLC that got added alongside Ghorst.

    Making Master Necromancers more interesting could have been done by making the existing Master Necromancer LL in the army more interesting (which they did in an admittedly odd way later on), they didn't have to use a DLC slot - the only DLC slot they would get in over 6 years mind you - on a nobody. That is a slap in the face to the fans of the race, and CA has admitted that adding him was a mistake and they were too focussed on the theme of "Sigmar's Blood" when deciding on the character in the DLC.

    They could have moved another Bloodline's LL out of Sylvania at a later date, they did it for Vlad when Isabella was released, so that argument makes zero sense. So no Ghorst did not necessarily steal the spot of Konrad. Even if the LL that might have come in his place wasn't a Bloodline character, there are other significant Necromancers, such as Dieter Helsnicht. On that however if the DLC had added a Strigoi character the Marshes of Madness were in the game 1 area, or the Forest of Shadows for Necrarchs (even if adding settlements, or failing that placing the LLs in the closest relevent settlements would be required).

    So perhaps he did not steal a spot from another Bloodline (although there is every possibility that he did), but he stole a spot from someone who is actually significant in the lore and to the race.

    Oh, and there is no guarantee that we will get every Bloodline represented in game at all. Vampire Counts do not have many missing units and CA has thrown doubt on "Character Packs" as a DLC format. They could stretch to 2 LPs with a dig into supplementary stuff to support the packs, but that is probably about it. We don't know what the lifecycle of WH3 will be, but there is a limit to the amount of DLC it will get, so 4 LLs is not a small ask. It is certainly not impossible but adding Ghorst instead of one of these 4 was a blow to the chances of a LL for each Bloodline.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 8,390
    DrJammat said:

    I like an underdog, I'd find it disappointing if the only factions we could play were the lauded powerful characters who we expect to do well. I'm happy to see the likes of Ghost, Tretch, Alberic etc.

    That's fair, but the issue is with Ghorst he is an extremely obscure and unimpactful character from a supplement, in a race that has more named characters than most other armies. If he was part of the 8th edition - or even an earlier edition - armybook then that would be one thing, but he isn't, and he likely took the place of a character that actually matters to the setting and the army.
  • kaiki_utokyo#9006kaiki_utokyo#9006 Registered Users Posts: 440
    I want to play him, but considering there is highly possibly a rework on VC, I may only play him after that.
  • EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 1,989
    I have accepted Ghorst just because VC has 2 vampires only and I hope this non-chaos servant necromancer is fun to play after IE rework.

    new Undead Legion:
    Nagash (unlockable for beating game with Undead Legion)
    The Nameless
    Dieter Helsnicht
    Neferata
    Dread King or Walach Harkon

    And also give a quest possibility to other mortachs to access/join some Undead Legion recruiting privileges.

    DLCs for VC BLOODLINES:
    /Necrachs:Zacharias, Melkhior, Radu the forsaken /Strigoi:Ushoran, Vorag The Ghoul King, Gashnag The Black Prince, Rametep /Blood Dragon:Red Duke, Abhorash /Lahmia:zNitocris, Ulrika, Naaima

  • DecayWolfDecayWolf Member Registered Users Posts: 562
    Goatforce said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    My issue with VC was Mannfred being the owner of Drakenhof AFTER vlad was brought back. Worse even Ghorst of all people being the owner or sub owner of drakenhof, that's just nuts.
    Now that both were moved away, I am very happy. Also Isabella is finally a legendary hero as she should be.

    Vlad was literally the FLC that got added alongside Ghorst.

    Making Master Necromancers more interesting could have been done by making the existing Master Necromancer LL in the army more interesting (which they did in an admittedly odd way later on), they didn't have to use a DLC slot - the only DLC slot they would get in over 6 years mind you - on a nobody. That is a slap in the face to the fans of the race, and CA has admitted that adding him was a mistake and they were too focussed on the theme of "Sigmar's Blood" when deciding on the character in the DLC.

    They could have moved another Bloodline's LL out of Sylvania at a later date, they did it for Vlad when Isabella was released, so that argument makes zero sense. So no Ghorst did not necessarily steal the spot of Konrad. Even if the LL that might have come in his place wasn't a Bloodline character, there are other significant Necromancers, such as Dieter Helsnicht. On that however if the DLC had added a Strigoi character the Marshes of Madness were in the game 1 area, or the Forest of Shadows for Necrarchs (even if adding settlements, or failing that placing the LLs in the closest relevent settlements would be required).

    So perhaps he did not steal a spot from another Bloodline (although there is every possibility that he did), but he stole a spot from someone who is actually significant in the lore and to the race.

    Oh, and there is no guarantee that we will get every Bloodline represented in game at all. Vampire Counts do not have many missing units and CA has thrown doubt on "Character Packs" as a DLC format. They could stretch to 2 LPs with a dig into supplementary stuff to support the packs, but that is probably about it. We don't know what the lifecycle of WH3 will be, but there is a limit to the amount of DLC it will get, so 4 LLs is not a small ask. It is certainly not impossible but adding Ghorst instead of one of these 4 was a blow to the chances of a LL for each Bloodline.
    I highly doubt CA will drop VC to rotten. If you have payed attention their entire army got a reskin a few different animations. Got one of the most extensive overhauls and rebalance. Plus in Halloween there's a marketing reason to sell any content from their race.

    VC is one of the most popular factions, fortunately.

    The bloodlines will come. They have already prepared the terrain and many of the required mechanics.
    We already have horde factions, we already have a reward system to sustain, we already have many diplomatic gimmicks, we already have WoM overhaul. The foundation is set.
    Even if not many units were introduced, the new mechanics will be a good selling point for them.
    If a new Skaven LL was introduced today, I don't think about would complain because it didn't came with new units.
    Besides some units could use reskin and stats rebalance or entirely repurpose to fill a unique playstyle purpose.

    Really, bloodlines will come.

    Well, I don't disagree that Ghorst ain't the most popular character, and another choice could've been made, but as it's...
    He's a fun playstyle. CA saved him. If anything we could ask for more characters after a couple of years after bloodlines release and other factions receive extra LLs.
  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 6,506

    Shrug.

    Zombies that don’t die as they are so tough, deal decent damage and can be healed over 600% of their cap, plus more?

    Zombie tide awaits.
  • Ben1990#8909Ben1990#8909 Registered Users Posts: 2,592

    How do you feel about it and why. Just curious to know

    With his skills and researches he makes zombies OP. Add in some Corpse Carts and Mortis Engines and they become unstoppable.
  • TancredIIQuenelles#3970TancredIIQuenelles#3970 Registered Users Posts: 1,302
    Ghrost and Alberik are great mistakes. Vampires and bretonnians have loads of more established and important characters. They had rules. They had models. They had more interesting and rich lore but not sevaral sentences in sidebars of the main texts. The most stupid choices. S*** choices.

  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 8,390
    DecayWolf said:

    Goatforce said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    My issue with VC was Mannfred being the owner of Drakenhof AFTER vlad was brought back. Worse even Ghorst of all people being the owner or sub owner of drakenhof, that's just nuts.
    Now that both were moved away, I am very happy. Also Isabella is finally a legendary hero as she should be.

    Vlad was literally the FLC that got added alongside Ghorst.

    Making Master Necromancers more interesting could have been done by making the existing Master Necromancer LL in the army more interesting (which they did in an admittedly odd way later on), they didn't have to use a DLC slot - the only DLC slot they would get in over 6 years mind you - on a nobody. That is a slap in the face to the fans of the race, and CA has admitted that adding him was a mistake and they were too focussed on the theme of "Sigmar's Blood" when deciding on the character in the DLC.

    They could have moved another Bloodline's LL out of Sylvania at a later date, they did it for Vlad when Isabella was released, so that argument makes zero sense. So no Ghorst did not necessarily steal the spot of Konrad. Even if the LL that might have come in his place wasn't a Bloodline character, there are other significant Necromancers, such as Dieter Helsnicht. On that however if the DLC had added a Strigoi character the Marshes of Madness were in the game 1 area, or the Forest of Shadows for Necrarchs (even if adding settlements, or failing that placing the LLs in the closest relevent settlements would be required).

    So perhaps he did not steal a spot from another Bloodline (although there is every possibility that he did), but he stole a spot from someone who is actually significant in the lore and to the race.

    Oh, and there is no guarantee that we will get every Bloodline represented in game at all. Vampire Counts do not have many missing units and CA has thrown doubt on "Character Packs" as a DLC format. They could stretch to 2 LPs with a dig into supplementary stuff to support the packs, but that is probably about it. We don't know what the lifecycle of WH3 will be, but there is a limit to the amount of DLC it will get, so 4 LLs is not a small ask. It is certainly not impossible but adding Ghorst instead of one of these 4 was a blow to the chances of a LL for each Bloodline.
    I highly doubt CA will drop VC to rotten. If you have payed attention their entire army got a reskin a few different animations. Got one of the most extensive overhauls and rebalance. Plus in Halloween there's a marketing reason to sell any content from their race.

    VC is one of the most popular factions, fortunately.

    The bloodlines will come. They have already prepared the terrain and many of the required mechanics.
    We already have horde factions, we already have a reward system to sustain, we already have many diplomatic gimmicks, we already have WoM overhaul. The foundation is set.
    Even if not many units were introduced, the new mechanics will be a good selling point for them.
    If a new Skaven LL was introduced today, I don't think about would complain because it didn't came with new units.
    Besides some units could use reskin and stats rebalance or entirely repurpose to fill a unique playstyle purpose.

    Really, bloodlines will come.

    Well, I don't disagree that Ghorst ain't the most popular character, and another choice could've been made, but as it's...
    He's a fun playstyle. CA saved him. If anything we could ask for more characters after a couple of years after bloodlines release and other factions receive extra LLs.
    There have been about 6 Halloweens since VCs got their last DLC or FLC LL, that means nothing.

    I never said CA would just leave VCs alone. Imo they are guaranteed to get at least 1 DLC with Neffy, which will hopefully come with a FLC Vamp (maybe making Red Duke fully playable). But there is a big difference between getting 1-2 LLs and getting 4 LLs during a game's lifecycle. Also as I said I don't think getting a LL for each Bloodline is impossible, far from it, but it is a big ask and is far from certain.

    You could look at the mechanics CA has added and claim that they lay the foundation for 200 different characters, that doesn't mean any of those characters will come. That is not anything close to the ironclad evidence you seem to think it is.

    But my point is not to be overly pessimistic and claim "Vamps are doomed, they won't get more support and they won't get a rep for each Bloodline", as you seem to think. Quite the opposite they will get support and they might get a LL for each Bloodline. But filling out those slots is far from the guarantee that you seem to think it is, and the jov of getting every line represented was made far harder due to Ghorst's inclusion.

    DLC and FLC slots are not infinite, the game will eventually end. Hopefully the lifespan will be long but if it is like WH2's (about 4 years) then there may only be 6-8 LPs left in total which need to be spread around to everyone that needs them, which would make a second VC LP a hard sell when their roster could basically be completed after 1 pack. FLC slots are similarly limited, especially since they will presumably initially be focussed on bolstering the smaller LL rosters of game 3 - for example by adding the LL Heralds to Monos, and probably adding a LL at least to Kislev and Cathay.

    If the game lasts for 8+ years or something like that then sure, I see no issue with the Vamps getting everything the need, and I hope it hapens, but we do not know it will happen at all.
  • #28957#28957 Registered Users Posts: 2,636
    Helman Ghorst is definitely one of the Legendary Lords in this game.
    Now I am known as "numbers".
  • Slugus#5078Slugus#5078 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 724

    I started playing in Wh2 well after he had already appeared, and the damage was done. So I have no negative feelings towards the man. If anything he fits a niche and may be the most pure example of "introducing a LL to fille a gameplay niche" instead of "finding a niche for this new LL to fill".

    What damage?
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,189
    I think the wet thud sound his skull makes when my choppa splits it is nice.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,937
    He is a scourge upon the paid content and usurper of Vlad's spot in it.
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Registered Users Posts: 3,054
    DecayWolf said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    you think Nechrachrs, Lahmian, Strigoi and Blood Dragon will all be seperate factions and not a part of VC? lol
    Definitely sub factions, with unique mechanics, playstyle, LLs roster.
    Maybe even a few unique units as well.
    One thing to point out is the Strigoi Lord that came with Ghorst. I think that shows they didn't think they'd be doing bloodlines as he's now second fiddle to the Blood Kiss Strigoi.

    Don't know what it means but shows they're doing more than they originally thought.
  • Slugus#5078Slugus#5078 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 724

    DecayWolf said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    you think Nechrachrs, Lahmian, Strigoi and Blood Dragon will all be seperate factions and not a part of VC? lol
    Definitely sub factions, with unique mechanics, playstyle, LLs roster.
    Maybe even a few unique units as well.
    One thing to point out is the Strigoi Lord that came with Ghorst. I think that shows they didn't think they'd be doing bloodlines as he's now second fiddle to the Blood Kiss Strigoi.

    Don't know what it means but shows they're doing more than they originally thought.
    They released something very minor years ago and it has become this.... no.
  • sykall#1105sykall#1105 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,980
    I always liked Ghorst. First I like necromancers in general but was always sorry that Kemmler was the only one next to a dozen vampires.

    Second I like his backstory which feels pretty natural to me. Because he is not some megalomaniac with a god complex, but a regular dude who got into necromancy because of his love and grieve for his family. Such simple but attractive motivations are rarley touched upon in warhammer. And they offer a nice contrast to the other LL.

    Lastly by proxy he creates more motives for Mannfred. As he took the grieving man under his wing and tutored him, and Ghorst up until now showing genuine loyalty, gives Mannfred and vampires at large more humane and sympathetic characteristics.

    Also I liked his campaign effects a lot. I liked to play him and I am looking forward to play him.

    In my head canon he is now another Marco Polo expy as he was a courier in the past. So maybe he went far out of the empire before his family died, maybe even with them (Marco Polo did travel witz his father and uncle). And now he is reliving these past travels which is why he went all over to Cathay.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Slugus#5078Slugus#5078 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 724
    sykall said:

    I always liked Ghorst. First I like necromancers in general but was always sorry that Kemmler was the only one next to a dozen vampires.

    Second I like his backstory which feels pretty natural to me. Because he is not some megalomaniac with a god complex, but a regular dude who got into necromancy because of his love and grieve for his family. Such simple but attractive motivations are rarley touched upon in warhammer. And they offer a nice contrast to the other LL.

    Lastly by proxy he creates more motives for Mannfred. As he took the grieving man under his wing and tutored him, and Ghorst up until now showing genuine loyalty, gives Mannfred and vampires at large more humane and sympathetic characteristics.

    Also I liked his campaign effects a lot. I liked to play him and I am looking forward to play him.

    In my head canon he is now another Marco Polo expy as he was a courier in the past. So maybe he went far out of the empire before his family died, maybe even with them (Marco Polo did travel witz his father and uncle). And now he is reliving these past travels which is why he went all over to Cathay.

    Please name the so claimed dozen vampires? I can think of 3.
  • TheWattman#7460TheWattman#7460 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,576
    Helman Ghorst is one of the biggest mistakes that CA has done in this trilogy. He never deserved LL status, not LH, not even a mention at all anywhere in the game. He was never a major character in any shape or form. He probably stole Konrad von Carstein's spot. His inclusion is on par with the disaster of rumping in the (extremely barebones version of the) living pirates of Sartosa with the Vampire Coast instead of the Southern Realms/DoW.
  • sykall#1105sykall#1105 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,980
    edited August 14
    Slugus said:

    sykall said:

    I always liked Ghorst. First I like necromancers in general but was always sorry that Kemmler was the only one next to a dozen vampires.

    Second I like his backstory which feels pretty natural to me. Because he is not some megalomaniac with a god complex, but a regular dude who got into necromancy because of his love and grieve for his family. Such simple but attractive motivations are rarley touched upon in warhammer. And they offer a nice contrast to the other LL.

    Lastly by proxy he creates more motives for Mannfred. As he took the grieving man under his wing and tutored him, and Ghorst up until now showing genuine loyalty, gives Mannfred and vampires at large more humane and sympathetic characteristics.

    Also I liked his campaign effects a lot. I liked to play him and I am looking forward to play him.

    In my head canon he is now another Marco Polo expy as he was a courier in the past. So maybe he went far out of the empire before his family died, maybe even with them (Marco Polo did travel witz his father and uncle). And now he is reliving these past travels which is why he went all over to Cathay.

    Please name the so claimed dozen vampires? I can think of 3.
    I was refrerring not to TW but to all the vampire characters in WFB. Do you still want me to name them? Could take a while
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Slugus#5078Slugus#5078 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 724

    Helman Ghorst is one of the biggest mistakes that CA has done in this trilogy. He never deserved LL status, not LH, not even a mention at all anywhere in the game. He was never a major character in any shape or form. He probably stole Konrad von Carstein's spot. His inclusion is on par with the disaster of rumping in the (extremely barebones version of the) living pirates of Sartosa with the Vampire Coast instead of the Southern Realms/DoW.

    Glad he stole Konrad Von Carstein spot... a vampire with no magic, bricked up his mother in a tower to starve to death... cool back story but ultimately is just a poor mans Vlad.
  • #28957#28957 Registered Users Posts: 2,636

    He is a scourge upon the paid content and usurper of Vlad's spot in it.

    Vlad von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein, Neferata, Abhorash, Red Duke, Melkhior/Zacharias, Ushoran, Gashnag, W'soran, Dieter Helsnicht and even Drachenfels. All of these could have been better DLC characters than Ghorst. Ghorst is FLC material, no matter what buffs CA slaps on him, they would be just as thematic for any other Necromancer or Necrach Vampire character.
    Now I am known as "numbers".
  • pblllrrpblllrr Registered Users Posts: 287
    He surpassed Nagash and his cruelty is without limits. He's great.
  • SafironDracolichSafironDracolich Registered Users Posts: 423

    Helman Ghorst is one of the biggest mistakes that CA has done in this trilogy. He never deserved LL status, not LH, not even a mention at all anywhere in the game. He was never a major character in any shape or form. He probably stole Konrad von Carstein's spot. His inclusion is on par with the disaster of rumping in the (extremely barebones version of the) living pirates of Sartosa with the Vampire Coast instead of the Southern Realms/DoW.

    And because of such statements, I have a question. What exactly is the reason for the hatred of Helman? And I actually don’t understand such hatred for him, given that at the moment he is one of the interesting characters with his own chips and his own history. And don't take it as a mistake, as it was actually a curious choice to make him a legendary lord.
  • DecayWolfDecayWolf Member Registered Users Posts: 562
    edited August 14

    DecayWolf said:

    DecayWolf said:

    No offense but saying Ghrost stole a spot from a bloodline is both untrue and would lead to a worse overall product.
    Bloodlines are coming, we'll have a whole new faction, with unique mechanics and LLs for each bloodline.

    It's not only much better, but also it would make ZERO sense to have say, Vorag, Aborash, Neferata, etc. Under VON CARSTEIN banner. That's just silly.

    Ghorst may have stolen the spot of say Konrad for instance. But you guys need to think about Wh1.
    Back then it was either another vampire lord which would be like a generic one, with better stats. There would be nothing that would make him unique.
    Also back then the meta was vampires, introducing a master necromancer with different playstyle and mechanics did bring flavour and a better overall experience to the faction as a whole.
    Ghorst as it's currently, is amazing.


    Oh also, back then Vlad didn't exist, so Konrad beyond being a generic vampire lord, would make absolutely no sense.

    you think Nechrachrs, Lahmian, Strigoi and Blood Dragon will all be seperate factions and not a part of VC? lol
    Definitely sub factions, with unique mechanics, playstyle, LLs roster.
    Maybe even a few unique units as well.
    One thing to point out is the Strigoi Lord that came with Ghorst. I think that shows they didn't think they'd be doing bloodlines as he's now second fiddle to the Blood Kiss Strigoi.

    Don't know what it means but shows they're doing more than they originally thought.
    Of course they didn't plan the blood kisses mechanic back then. WH1 all factions were and played very similar, it was almost an Rome 2 reskin at release. They were afraid of releasing Vlad, due how powerful he's in the lore and because of the timeline. Since Franz was after the vampiric wars.
    Heck they're afraid of their reputation and that nobody would want to consume a fantasy inspired game.

    You could even argue that back then they weren't thinking about the first born vampires of the bloodlines at all.
    Back then those could've been released under Von Carstein. What stopped them primarily was timeline and LLs count.
    After Volkmar's update VC got more LLs than any other faction, in that sense it "locked" for any further release.
    Specially with people saying "Oh we won't get any new LL, ever again, all because of Ghorst, burn,kill Ghorst"
    It was translated as "LL has too many LLs, so we won't release any new one" Plus some people were also literally whining about VC total LL count, saying it was unfair that X,Y,Z factions got much fewer.
    The change with the bloodline came after Druchii, Lizardmen and Skaven received so many LLs, that at this point CA understood that we aren't against many LLs under the same faction.

    However this was the vision of WH1. Much has changed.
    If they planned the true bloodlines back in Wh1, with each faction lead by their first born or noteworthy vampire. I don't know.
    But by Wh2 bloodlines update, things have changed and so CA's goals.

    All in all, it was a very good thing that we didn't receive any first born under Von Carstein. It would've ruined the vampire race as a whole.
    Let the true bloodlines DLC come.
  • #28957#28957 Registered Users Posts: 2,636

    Helman Ghorst is one of the biggest mistakes that CA has done in this trilogy. He never deserved LL status, not LH, not even a mention at all anywhere in the game. He was never a major character in any shape or form. He probably stole Konrad von Carstein's spot. His inclusion is on par with the disaster of rumping in the (extremely barebones version of the) living pirates of Sartosa with the Vampire Coast instead of the Southern Realms/DoW.

    And because of such statements, I have a question. What exactly is the reason for the hatred of Helman? And I actually don’t understand such hatred for him, given that at the moment he is one of the interesting characters with his own chips and his own history. And don't take it as a mistake, as it was actually a curious choice to make him a legendary lord.
    His history consists of one or two paragraphs in Sigmar's Blood supplement and all it basically says is that Helman was a good man, but lost his brothers due to a plague, tried to bring them back, turnt to necromancy and went insane.

    I can't say I "hate" him, but there is a good dozen of characters who might have been a much better pick for a DLC VC LL.
    Now I am known as "numbers".
  • DecayWolfDecayWolf Member Registered Users Posts: 562
    edited August 14
    Enforest said:

    He is a scourge upon the paid content and usurper of Vlad's spot in it.

    Vlad von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein, Neferata, Abhorash, Red Duke, Melkhior/Zacharias, Ushoran, Gashnag, W'soran, Dieter Helsnicht and even Drachenfels. All of these could have been better DLC characters than Ghorst. Ghorst is FLC material, no matter what buffs CA slaps on him, they would be just as thematic for any other Necromancer or Necrach Vampire character.
    Enforest said:

    He is a scourge upon the paid content and usurper of Vlad's spot in it.

    Vlad von Carstein, Konrad Von Carstein, Neferata, Abhorash, Red Duke, Melkhior/Zacharias, Ushoran, Gashnag, W'soran, Dieter Helsnicht and even Drachenfels. All of these could have been better DLC characters than Ghorst. Ghorst is FLC material, no matter what buffs CA slaps on him, they would be just as thematic for any other Necromancer or Necrach Vampire character.
    From above you got only 2 names.

    Konrad, which has no magic... and Dieter.
    Vlad and Red Duke are already introduced.
    Bloodlines should come as a DLC, not under Von Carstein. That would cheapen everything.
    so I'd argue that the only real choice would be Dieter and even then he might come under Nagash's.

    I sure do hope that all the names mentioned above will be introduced, in some shape or form.

    Oh by the way, the reason why Red Duke wasn't made playable until now, is kinda a gigantic hint of Blood Dragons bloodline.
  • destroyer67115destroyer67115 Registered Users Posts: 1,357
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