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Bretonnia is being left behind

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Comments

  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 485
    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
  • ladymissfit#8688ladymissfit#8688 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,480
    What bretonnia needs is buffed cavalry, rework of grail knights (low entity count, absolutely monstrous stats) and siege ramps so their cavs can fight on walls.

    Did you pay for Bretonnia? Then why should the devs bother?

    because that's what adding value actually looks like. Dlc's don't add value to people who already own the game. updating the game does. especially stuff like brettonia, which has been the biggest value add in the game's history so far.
    Chaos lords should be women

    Army painter plox
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 485
    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav
    The stronges anti-cav. cav. was the ROR of the questing knigts. They were abel to absolutly kill the Royal Altdorf Gryphites
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,396
    Bretonnia was not FLC.

    Bretonnia was a base part of Game 1 that was delayed and didn't make launch. It was added shortly after launch. Not as FLC, but as the game being completed.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav
    The stronges anti-cav. cav. was the ROR of the questing knigts. They were abel to absolutly kill the Royal Altdorf Gryphites
    thats one ror vs another ror while ror questing knights can beat them in actual battle that rarely happened .

    since both parties gonna bring healing and while QK ror were doing ton of damage they didn't kill off models fast while gryphytes killed models so it just ended up with being bad trade any way for QK ror

    on top of that shooting would just shut them down

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 485
    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav
    The stronges anti-cav. cav. was the ROR of the questing knigts. They were abel to absolutly kill the Royal Altdorf Gryphites
    thats one ror vs another ror while ror questing knights can beat them in actual battle that rarely happened .

    since both parties gonna bring healing and while QK ror were doing ton of damage they didn't kill off models fast while gryphytes killed models so it just ended up with being bad trade any way for QK ror

    on top of that shooting would just shut them down
    yeah ranged units are to powerful. So archers should do less damage to heavy armored knights.
  • GeorgeTruman#8059GeorgeTruman#8059 Registered Users Posts: 645
    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav
    The stronges anti-cav. cav. was the ROR of the questing knigts. They were abel to absolutly kill the Royal Altdorf Gryphites
    thats one ror vs another ror while ror questing knights can beat them in actual battle that rarely happened .

    since both parties gonna bring healing and while QK ror were doing ton of damage they didn't kill off models fast while gryphytes killed models so it just ended up with being bad trade any way for QK ror

    on top of that shooting would just shut them down
    yeah ranged units are to powerful. So archers should do less damage to heavy armored knights.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    KIT1986 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.
    yeah the new factions have to be op. They are fancy and new.
    winged lancers yes heart seekrs are weird since while there the strongest literally any thing can kill them if they get rear charged .

    either case usually form a usability stand point of cav dominance Monstrous cav is better than regular cav
    The stronges anti-cav. cav. was the ROR of the questing knigts. They were abel to absolutly kill the Royal Altdorf Gryphites
    thats one ror vs another ror while ror questing knights can beat them in actual battle that rarely happened .

    since both parties gonna bring healing and while QK ror were doing ton of damage they didn't kill off models fast while gryphytes killed models so it just ended up with being bad trade any way for QK ror

    on top of that shooting would just shut them down
    yeah ranged units are to powerful. So archers should do less damage to heavy armored knights.
    archers aren't usually the issue for a fastish unit pistoleris are but i am 100 % in the camp that calibration distance which is the main cause of the hype accuracy of units need a dirt nap

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.
    being powerful and being fun are not the same brets are pretty half baked most of the ideas that went in to them are actually good but not fully developed.

    Alberic is fine lord choice too bad no voice acting

    vows a great meachanic too bad it doesn't matter which path you take

    Green knight a LH pretty worthless in late game.


    chivalry great meachanic but its only gains there is nothing to spend it on apart from brothles


    peasent population is great mechanic problem who the **** is using peasents by mid to late game apart from archers and you **** out knights like they grow on trees

    i can go on. they need love my mate cheesing or having a nice easy camapagin is not the same as actually being complete

    and also the fact AI good damn clown do you think it can actually challange you go play MP camapagin with a freind whose semi decent against a real cav faction you will get owned in the cav department.

    the point is they need hefty budget to finish their mechanics add few units so they don't get clowned on the one area there suppose to be good at.


    i don't need to go on a battle agaisnst bretonnia and go oh face charging brets with my cav is the easiest way to win

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • GeorgeTruman#8059GeorgeTruman#8059 Registered Users Posts: 645
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.
    being powerful and being fun are not the same brets are pretty half baked most of the ideas that went in to them are actually good but not fully developed.

    Alberic is fine lord choice too bad no voice acting

    vows a great meachanic too bad it doesn't matter which path you take

    Green knight a LH pretty worthless in late game.


    chivalry great meachanic but its only gains there is nothing to spend it on apart from brothles


    peasent population is great mechanic problem who the **** is using peasents by mid to late game apart from archers and you **** out knights like they grow on trees

    i can go on. they need love my mate cheesing or having a nice easy camapagin is not the same as actually being complete

    and also the fact AI good damn clown do you think it can actually challange you go play MP camapagin with a freind whose semi decent against a real cav faction you will get owned in the cav department.

    the point is they need hefty budget to finish their mechanics add few units so they don't get clowned on the one area there suppose to be good at.


    i don't need to go on a battle agaisnst bretonnia and go oh face charging brets with my cav is the easiest way to win
    I don't disagree with the idea that their mechanics could be made more interesting but the OP was about Bretonnia being left behind due to being too weak:

    "For what I can see online it seems that Bretonnia needs some serious buffs to stay competitive... Both to campaign and battle!"

    I would love to see their mechanics made a bit more interesting, but I don't think they need to be made stronger in campaign lest they become completely boring to play, like beastmen.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327

    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.
    being powerful and being fun are not the same brets are pretty half baked most of the ideas that went in to them are actually good but not fully developed.

    Alberic is fine lord choice too bad no voice acting

    vows a great meachanic too bad it doesn't matter which path you take

    Green knight a LH pretty worthless in late game.


    chivalry great meachanic but its only gains there is nothing to spend it on apart from brothles


    peasent population is great mechanic problem who the **** is using peasents by mid to late game apart from archers and you **** out knights like they grow on trees

    i can go on. they need love my mate cheesing or having a nice easy camapagin is not the same as actually being complete

    and also the fact AI good damn clown do you think it can actually challange you go play MP camapagin with a freind whose semi decent against a real cav faction you will get owned in the cav department.

    the point is they need hefty budget to finish their mechanics add few units so they don't get clowned on the one area there suppose to be good at.


    i don't need to go on a battle agaisnst bretonnia and go oh face charging brets with my cav is the easiest way to win
    I don't disagree with the idea that their mechanics could be made more interesting but the OP was about Bretonnia being left behind due to being too weak:

    "For what I can see online it seems that Bretonnia needs some serious buffs to stay competitive... Both to campaign and battle!"

    I would love to see their mechanics made a bit more interesting, but I don't think they need to be made stronger in campaign lest they become completely boring to play, like beastmen.

    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.

    Nazjax said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !

    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.

    Other factions having good cavalry doesn't make bret cavalry worse.

    That SS was relevant because it shows how well bret cav can perform in WH2, whereas in WH3 the AI gets half the cheats. If that battle was fought in WH3 it would have been even more one-sided.

    New factions having a few powerful cavalry units doesn't outweigh the massive benefit bret cav gets from the reduced VH battle cheats.

    And while the base power of their knights might not be remarkable, Bretonnia gets massive tech boosts to their units. All knight units get melee attack, melee defense, speed, charge bonus, armor, and weapon strength, and grail knights get bonus ward save and also benefit from the landmark in Couronne. You can buff bret cav more than almost any other elite unit in the game, plus you get tech bonuses vs specific races you are likely to fight.

    Also when talking about the increase in magic attacks in the game, its important to note that most of the new sources of magic attack are daemons, who are incredibly susceptible to grail knights. Low amour units that are also weak to grail knights' magical attacks.
    saweendra said:

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.
    I didn't say they didn't need anything, I said they weren't getting "left behind".

    They are an incredibly strong faction in campaign. They easily boost their global recruitment, get access to significant recruit rank bonuses, and a ton of tech boosts for their knights.

    I understand that any faction "can" work in single player, my point is that it is not only possible to make Bretonnia work, but it is incredibly easy. You don't have to go out of your way to cheese to make them viable even in WH2 with max AI cheats. You can play them super straightforward and you will crush the AI. In WH3 the ai is only worse in melee combat.

    As far as MP goes, I don't know. But it certainly appears that there are factions in a considerably worse off position.
    being powerful and being fun are not the same brets are pretty half baked most of the ideas that went in to them are actually good but not fully developed.

    Alberic is fine lord choice too bad no voice acting

    vows a great meachanic too bad it doesn't matter which path you take

    Green knight a LH pretty worthless in late game.


    chivalry great meachanic but its only gains there is nothing to spend it on apart from brothles


    peasent population is great mechanic problem who the **** is using peasents by mid to late game apart from archers and you **** out knights like they grow on trees

    i can go on. they need love my mate cheesing or having a nice easy camapagin is not the same as actually being complete

    and also the fact AI good damn clown do you think it can actually challange you go play MP camapagin with a freind whose semi decent against a real cav faction you will get owned in the cav department.

    the point is they need hefty budget to finish their mechanics add few units so they don't get clowned on the one area there suppose to be good at.


    i don't need to go on a battle agaisnst bretonnia and go oh face charging brets with my cav is the easiest way to win
    I don't disagree with the idea that their mechanics could be made more interesting but the OP was about Bretonnia being left behind due to being too weak:

    "For what I can see online it seems that Bretonnia needs some serious buffs to stay competitive... Both to campaign and battle!"

    I would love to see their mechanics made a bit more interesting, but I don't think they need to be made stronger in campaign lest they become completely boring to play, like beastmen.
    you see i don't give **** about pure strength what i want is polish for camapgin

    couple of new units specially in MP so i don't get run over by orc big uns on boars or other actual cav factions and have a good chance to actually challenge enemy cav in fair way with out busted stuff or open up new play styles.

    and obviously these units can freshen up camapgin armies because there is bit more build variety

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


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