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  • vormaerin#1910vormaerin#1910 Registered Users Posts: 234
    Demigryphs win on Cost at 1400 per unit vs 1600 for War Bears in MP

    Spd and Leadership is the same.

    Demigryphs have 125 armor and bronze shields vs Bears with 100 armor.
    Bears have more hp (8256 vs 6976)
    Bears win on MA with 46 vs 38.
    Demigryphs win slightly on MD with 38 vs 34
    Demigryphs win on Charge bonus with 60 vs 38.

    War Bears are 16 models doing 33 base and 77AP damage
    Demigryphs are 32 models doing 19 base and 39AP damage.
    (tbh, I have no idea how to tell which of those is more overall, its probably situational)

    War Bears are anti large. Regular Demigryphs are not.

    (Halberd Demigryphs lose the shield and the edge in MD, lose most of the edge in charge bonus (down to 48), but get bonus vs Large)

    As you might expect of a unit that is quite a bit more expensive, War Bears are a bit better. Definitely better head to head. But the charge bonus and shields add quite a lot of value on the battlefield overall.


    If you are talking about campaign play, they are both Tier 4 (though Demigryphs require a second T3 building...). Bears cost more, but not so much you'd likely care. But Demigryphs have 4 techs giving +10 Armor, +5 Lead, +4MA, +4MD, and Vigour Loss Reduction
    Bears have one tech giving them Frenzy. (maybe they count as Melee Cav and get the +10 Armor tech also? not sure).

    The Red Line skills are slightly better for War Bears (+8MA is better than +12 Armor and the weapon damage bonus is the same).


    Short version: If you want an anti large cavalry, War Bears are more expensive but clearly better. If your opponent has a lot of missile weapons or you want to crush infantry, Demigryphs are cheaper and clearly better. Seems reasonable to me.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    yes so there is one unit in the Empire's roster which is superior
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    edited September 20
    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.
    Post edited by KIT#5531 on
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    united84 said:

    Empire has more magic, more cav, more artillery & arguably better ranged selection (esp against large which Cathay lacks). The only thing Cathay is doing better is probably on the infantry side of things. I am not an expert on the nitty gritty of warhammer units and battles, that is my general impression after playing both Cathay and Empire.

    Not to mention, Empire's campaign mechanic is much more fun and viable (late game) than Cathay. Cathay's Wu Xing Compass is a simplified version of TWW2's rite system which is quite useless in late game and caravan's reward is also negligible once your economy is rolling.

    I could empathize with fans of Kislev and Bretonnia but people complaining about Empire is just strange more so when comparing with a brand new faction.

    The Empire advantage in having more units will disappear once Cathay gets their DLC and quality generally beats quantity. And let's not forget that Cathay get units that the Empire does not have access to at all.

    Not sure where you get the idea that Cathay ranged is weaker against large? Crane Gunners and Cathay Crossbows melt large targets, that is how I survived several caravan battles against large armies.

    Ignoring the powerful advantages that Cathay get from the Compass, Harmony and the Caravans in the early to mid game is chery picking things to try to present the Empire mechanics as better. You also don't specify which of the Empire mechanics you are referring to.

    The half-broken Elector Count mechanic that Karl Franz and Gelt are burdened with that can kill your campaign in 30 turns in its current state?

    Sure you can continue to recruit units from it in the late game but many of them will be of limited use due to the AI spamming elite units and SEMs by then.
    And Authority and Prestige stop playing a part once the Empire is unified.
    Cathay's Caravans also generate more interesting battles than the Empire intervention events and does so without killing the lords in your recruitment pool at random.

    Volkmar's bland copy-paste from the Tomb Kings which has next to no organic connection to your gameplay? Where the admittedly at times powerful effects are effectively gated away from the player into the mid game.

    Markus' mechanic is actually good but only applies to a single specialised campaign.
    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    Pray said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    In lore they break massive ork waggg with just 3 of them . if you count End time they kill Gorgons with out break a sweat Demis itself can kill Juggernaut , they are the arrow head in Endtime . yep they should beat bear rider in Charge . let's be real bear raider die while they're blinking . the issue in lore is they have very few number . like in Sigmar blood they have only 3 Royal aldolf Gryphite .
    So CA should limit the amount of regiments you can get. But they should be much better - and of course - much more expensive. Same for the Meme Tank. In Lore there are only 7. So CA should buff them massively
  • DarthEnderX-#6513DarthEnderX-#6513 Registered Users Posts: 4,746
    edited September 20
    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    "Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 328


    The Empire doesn't have all that much design space left though.

    Like people want Teutogen Guard but they're just Greatswords that can hit a little bit harder*, and you can make Greatswords hit harder by making Greatswords hit harder (but the problem is that they need to hit more not harder).

    The Priest of Ulric isn't going to have a lot of variation over the standard Warrior Priest, and the Empire already has 4 heroes and has one missing from their actual armybook still (Master Engineer). It's just that a couple of their heroes are a bit crap and you fix that by making them better.

    So most of the new units people want really just fill an existing role but do it better, and you can cover that by making the unit that fills that role do it better.

    And this whilst the Empire still isn't even armybook complete.

    In terms of units themselves, I don't think there's that many unique ones left from the tabletop. What comes to mind is:

    - Celestial Hurricanum

    - Reiksguard (foot version): Could come with sword/shields, or halberds.

    - Hunting Hounds

    - Teutogen Guard

    - Wolf-kin

    - Warriors of Ulric

    - Knights of the White Wolf

    - Panther Knights

    - Sisters of Sigma

    Otherwise you're just looking at upgraded versions of existing units, such as:

    - Armoured Archers (shielded): Basically just regular archers but with better armour and a shield on their backs. 4th edition Fantasy upgrades.

    - Armoured Crossbowmen (shielded): As above except for crossbowmen.

    - Armoured Handgunners: No shield, but still has better armour.

    - Halberds (shielded): Couldn't use the shield at the same time as wielding the halberd but benefited from increased missile resistance.

    That’s basically all the regular/regiment of renown units I can think of. The rest is all potential heroes and lords.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337
    edited September 20
    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.
    Nope.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337

    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    I will test demis with helberds out vs bears when i get a chance .

    But i doubt demis need buffs more like bears might need nerfs

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346
    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.
    I'm of the mind that the Empire shouldn't be the best in any one catagory, but should simply have no immediate flaws either. Kislev and Bretonnia should always have better Cavalry options. Any one of the Elves should be better at range. Dwarfs and Skaven should beat them at artillery. Most factions should have better top end infantry. Their Skirmishers should be good, but never excel to the point of being the cornerstone. Despite never having the top end in any one catagory though, the Empire can do it all. No matter what faction you send their way they should be able to figure out what that faction can't do and exploit that weakness. Are they there yet? Probably not. Could use a bit more work in the mid-tier. But jack of all trades master of none is the factions identity.
  • SteelRonin#4832SteelRonin#4832 Junior Member ChileRegistered Users Posts: 1,566
    The powercreep
  • Warlord_Lu_Bu#2268Warlord_Lu_Bu#2268 Registered Users Posts: 3,197
    Empire doesn't need any more lord packs... it could use a tune up though. It definitely doesn't stand up against the new WoC armies... they waltz through the empire so easily.
    "I am the punishment of Tengger, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chinghis Haan Temujin
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337

    Empire doesn't need any more lord packs... it could use a tune up though. It definitely doesn't stand up against the new WoC armies... they waltz through the empire so easily.

    Empire is gonna get dlc.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    edited September 20

    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    Skullcrushers are AoS ****. Don't wanna see them in Warhammer Fantasy. Skarbrand is so OP that its campaign is boring. He doesn't need the best most. cav. in the game.
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346
    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    Skullcrushers are AoS ****. Don't wanna see them in Warhammer Fantasy. Skarbrand is so OP that its campaign is boring. He doesn't need the best most. cav. in the game.
    Skullcrushers are decidedly not AoS. They are right there in Warhammer 8th ed, and they were some of the most powerful models in the game there as well.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    Helhound said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    Skullcrushers are AoS ****. Don't wanna see them in Warhammer Fantasy. Skarbrand is so OP that its campaign is boring. He doesn't need the best most. cav. in the game.
    Skullcrushers are decidedly not AoS. They are right there in Warhammer 8th ed, and they were some of the most powerful models in the game there as well.
    And cannons could one shot monsters ...
  • Kn_Gars#2718Kn_Gars#2718 Registered Users Posts: 3,275
    Helhound said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    I think the only Empire unit whose "problem" requires stat fixes is the Greatsword. They aren't useful in MP, they aren't useful in Single player. They just underperform, period.

    But most of the rest of the stuff is not a stats problem. Luminarks and Volleyguns would be fine if LOS in this game wasn't so wonky in places. Mortars are fine when the AI isn't doing cheerleader evolutions on the field.

    The Steam Tank's problem is how much ranged armor piercing is out there.

    The Greatswords' problems are compounded by an unduly difficult recruiting prerequisite.

    The Empire Captain's main virtue being cheapness is undervalued by the way the campaign works. There's nothing wrong with his stats for his cost. But saving money is rarely a thing in SP after a while.

    All the missing units except the Engineer hero are more of the same that we already have. Cool for flavor and all that jazz, but not going to alter the Empire's general performance. Especially if you fix Greatswords instead of just replace them with a better variant.

    Demigryph Knights also very bad they got a nerf in the past but now there are many similar units which are much better.
    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?
    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.
    I'm of the mind that the Empire shouldn't be the best in any one catagory, but should simply have no immediate flaws either. Kislev and Bretonnia should always have better Cavalry options. Any one of the Elves should be better at range. Dwarfs and Skaven should beat them at artillery. Most factions should have better top end infantry. Their Skirmishers should be good, but never excel to the point of being the cornerstone. Despite never having the top end in any one catagory though, the Empire can do it all. No matter what faction you send their way they should be able to figure out what that faction can't do and exploit that weakness. Are they there yet? Probably not. Could use a bit more work in the mid-tier. But jack of all trades master of none is the factions identity.
    Kislev never had better cavalry than the Empire in the TT, they had better light and medium cavalry. That distinction should have been kept. Or the Empire Pistoliers should be buffed to their actual stats.

    As it stands Kislev has better cavalry, better melee infantry and superior gunpowder infantry. That is just wrong and I say that as a long time fan of Kislev.

    As for Skaven and Dwarf artillery the Empire had cannon that were more powerful than the dwarfs in some aspects but suffered from less reliability. The Dwarfs conservative nature also prevented them from adopting weapons like the Hellstorm.

    Skaven artillery was more powerful at times, other times it blew up and took a goos chunk of the army with it. The current Sci-Fi Skaven is more AoS than Warhammer.

    The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,864
    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Kneel

  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,864
    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
    Some pathetic human on the back of a stunted, under developed griffin, has no chance against a Warrior of Chaos Berzerker, on the back of an Iron Plated Daemonic Rhino.
    Kneel

  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    edited September 20

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
    Some pathetic human on the back of a stunted, under developed griffin, has no chance against a Warrior of Chaos Berzerker, on the back of an Iron Plated Daemonic Rhino.
    This cyborg rhino can go to AoS or 40k they would be glad to have it there. As well as the Skaven nuke
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,864
    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
    Some pathetic human on the back of a stunted, under developed griffin, has no chance against a Warrior of Chaos Berzerker, on the back of an Iron Plated Daemonic Rhino.
    This cyborg rhino can go to AoS or 40k they would be glad to have it there.
    Juggernaughts have been part of the setting for decades, far far far longer than Demigryphs.. forget that.
    Kneel

  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,574
    KIT#5531 said:

    saweendra said:

    so demis should beat skull crushers and crushers in straight fight and bear riders?

    Demigryphs should be better than bear riders, but not Skullcrushers.

    Guy on animal < guy on mythical beast < immortal warrior on daemon
    Skullcrushers are AoS ****. Don't wanna see them in Warhammer Fantasy. Skarbrand is so OP that its campaign is boring. He doesn't need the best most. cav. in the game.
    Skullcrushers were in the Warriors of Chaos army book.

    And yeah, the Skullcrusher vs Demigryph is probably the best comparison for game 1 very conservative adaptation vs. game 3 very permissive adaptation.

    If Demis were being adapted now, the halberd one would still have their shields (you didn't lose your shield when taking halberds on them on TT, you just couldn't use it in melee, but shields in Total War are for shooting only anyway). They probably wouldn't lose the melee attack either (because a Halberd is just +1Str, whereas Lance is +2Str but only on the charge. Skullcrushers have to pay extra for lances). They'd probably have more AP damage as well, because the Demigryph itself is S5 with Armour Piercing (so reduces armour save by 3 instead of the normal 2 for S5).

    Meanwhile on TT the lance profile Skullcrusher would be 35% more expensive than a Demigryph and in TW they're only 20% more.

    Units adapted now just get more credit for what they had on tabletop than units adapted 6 years ago (See also: WS4 Dwarf Warriors with 22MA).
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 488
    edited September 20

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
    Some pathetic human on the back of a stunted, under developed griffin, has no chance against a Warrior of Chaos Berzerker, on the back of an Iron Plated Daemonic Rhino.
    This cyborg rhino can go to AoS or 40k they would be glad to have it there.
    Juggernaughts have been part of the setting for decades, far far far longer than Demigryphs.. forget that.
    yes and a Demigryph could kill one ...
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,864
    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:

    KIT#5531 said:


    Yes Yes Yes. Is it that bad if the Empire got one unit which is superior? Make them more expensive of course.

    lol they should not beat crushers.
    Of course they should!
    Some pathetic human on the back of a stunted, under developed griffin, has no chance against a Warrior of Chaos Berzerker, on the back of an Iron Plated Daemonic Rhino.
    This cyborg rhino can go to AoS or 40k they would be glad to have it there.
    Juggernaughts have been part of the setting for decades, far far far longer than Demigryphs.. forget that.
    yes and a Demigryph could kill one ...
    No.
    Kneel

  • Ashbery76#5298Ashbery76#5298 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 618
    edited September 20
    Empire play better in feel.Cathay are a blandly designed faction out of place in this game.Too PC,too perfect.
  • Mastigos#4130Mastigos#4130 Registered Users Posts: 136
    edited September 20
    I'm not going to comment on whether Empire "needs" a rework or significant buffs.

    However, I will say that there are many, many people on this forum who play Empire as their primary faction and/or it is their favorite faction -- which can really color their outlook and influence their opinion regarding all things Empire; including its overall strength.

    I'll also say this, and be done with it: I have yet to see a faction as versatile as the Empire, late game. And while versatility isn't meant to be a substitute for power, it is a power multiplier.

    Calling a sniper weak because it can't 1v1 a mechanical unit is a fundamental misunderstand of a sniper's role. If versatility is the "sniper" in this example, think about what that's implying.

    A good Empire player can really squeeze every bit of power out of his army by virtue of using his "swiss army knife" army well. But that doesn't do much good in the face of overwhelming power. So one must be careful to ensure keeping the Empire powerful enough to be relevant, without making the Empire "equal to other factions" when that is a fundamental misunderstanding of how Empire works; and thus will end up making Empire completely busted in the later stages of the game.
    Wargrove of Woe - The Barrow Legion - Ursun Revivalists
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,574
    Mastigos said:

    I'm not going to comment on whether Empire "needs" a rework or significant buffs.

    The Empire doesn't need "significant" buffs, it needs some small precision buffs to certain units and better and more interesting heroes and generals.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337

    Mastigos said:

    I'm not going to comment on whether Empire "needs" a rework or significant buffs.

    The Empire doesn't need "significant" buffs, it needs some small precision buffs to certain units and better and more interesting heroes and generals.
    Let me correct you it may need buffs to its techs and skills.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • kyle_usmckyle_usmc Registered Users Posts: 195
    The Empire is playable but they need a buff they are maybe the weakest battle faction, except brettonia
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