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Replacing an AMD 3500+, a sorry affair (Need expert advice)

beyndtstngbeyndtstng Junior MemberPosts: 12Registered Users
edited December 2010 in Technology
As you can tell I am one of those people who put off buying a computer because I hate to buy something only to have it be outdated in 6 months. I always wait for the new technology to come out only to pass on making the purchase for the above reason. Well I'm ready to actually do it this time with the expressed desire to play the Total War series on the highest possible settings.

My favorite game is Medieval 2 and I haven't played any since because frankly my computer can't handle it. I have an AMD 3500+, 2 gb DDR2, G-Force 6600 AGP graphics card and a 80 gb hard drive (sad I know). As you can tell I have nothing that I can carry over from my old PC. I know some things about the new technology out there but nothing as to how it applies to the total war series. I don't want to overspend on parts that I don't necessarily need (i.e. buying a GTX 570 when a 470 would have done the job). In summary:

Goal: To be able to play the total war series (including Shogun 2) on max settings. I would like the ability to edit home movies and burn them to DVD but not required.

What I have: Keyboard, mouse, speakers, 22" Acer LCD monitor.

Budget: $1500 but I would be willing to go up to $1750.

Obviously if a $1000 rig would do the job that would be fine by me. I would like this computer to be capable for at least a couple of years. Any recommendations the community could give me would be extremely appreciated. If any additional information is needed just let me know.
Post edited by beyndtstng on

Comments

  • ToxicseagullToxicseagull Senior Member Posts: 944Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103299

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883113152

    come with a keyboard but nevermind, either would be good. pref the acer if you can stand the case although the gateway does also play bluray. im assuming you dont want to build your own.
  • Maeda_ToshiieMaeda_Toshiie Senior Member SingaporePosts: 3,601Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    No point shelling out for an i7. Either get a i5 760 OR wait for Sandy Bridge.
    Total War Forums, the official forums of the Total War series:

    Forum terms and conditions
    Technology Discussion Section
    How not to assemble a PC

    Google-fu, the best skill in solving technical issues.

    Faibo waipa!
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited December 2010
    [email protected] NO! That's how he got to where he IS! Remember time versus a component -one you can buy, the other is priceless!

    @beynd re: Toxic's good system picks
    Well I suppose that IS a question: DO you want to buy it ready made, or do you want more control and better price -but more work? If you are interested in the latter, I treat this option at the bottom.

    As you can see from Toxic's post, if you are in the US, your budget will easily allow you to achieve your goal or exceed it... even with a pre-built system. You ARE paying more for pre-built systems, and these may often have things not exactly in the most efficient combination, although these aren't bad at all. As he mentioned, you will lose out on some efficiencies because you already have the keyboard mouse thing...but actually, if you don't mind sticking the bits into the motherboard, and the mobo into the case, you have other things as well. You see, you already have a case (most likely), with all its attendant fans, lights, and probably a cd drive, as well, although it may not be dvd.

    Lets say you wanted to buy the items in the first package but stick them together yourself. Don't need keyboard, mouse, monitor, case, fans, possibly cd/dvd drive (but that's only about $25 so hardly a big ticket item).

    Need an 870 i7 - its $279

    Need an AMD5850- its $224 for the cheapest one with a lifetime warranty (XFX), might be just as effective or more so to get a 6870

    Need 8gb of 1333 -$100 give or take depending on whether you go 2x4 or 4x2...

    Need an 1156 mobo- $104 a good Asus mobo with room for expansion... other makers available for less.

    PSU 750 watts - $99-$109 for very beefy reliable Corsair or even save 10 bucks and get the Antec with an absolutely insane 100
    amps on the 12+volt rails! Holy Cannoli! (Goes down quickly from there since there isn't too much I would buy at 89)

    So thats $816, another $25 bucks for a cd/dvd ROM drive if needed. Now I really WOULD get a new harddrive because they are so cheap, and the longer you hang on to the one you have, the more likely you are to have trouble... A 1 terabyte (!) Western DIgital Caviar Black will set you back another whopping $87 -your total without new wizzbang bling, rapid delivery, and a new OS (def OPTIONAL IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A 64 BIT OS!!!!) is $928 -BUT you have to put it together, or get a friend to in your best Tom Sawyer manner... On the other hand, you can easily see you can go NUTS doing all sorts of EXTRA things if you wish-that exta stuff will be gravy-or-maybe you need to get a gift for your soon to be lonely girlfriend!

    Last word? If you DON'T have a 64 bit OS already, you will not be able to use more than about 3.something gigs of your memory. You are going to want that extra mem, and no mistake. Also it was unclear to me whether the package named on Newegg included an OS pre-loaded or not. I will look into that and repost as soon as I can get back.

    Al
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • beyndtstngbeyndtstng Junior Member Posts: 12Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    Actually my father puts computers together so I will probably go that route if I can get more bang for the buck. Thanks for the advice so far. So I don't need to get DDR3 1600 or the newer Intel chipset to play Shogun 2 on ultra levels? If $1000 is all I have to spend I am thrilled!! Any more suggestions?
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited December 2010
    If you're dad puts em together for you thats great!

    New chipsets, DDR3 and Shogun 2 at Ultra
    Er, no, I didn't say that at all. IN fact if you are getting a 55 (i-870) or a 58 (i-930) chipset, you're buying a newest-available intel chipset, and you're using DDR3, what you don't HAVE to use is triple channel DDR3, as the 55 uses double channel DDR3 while the 58 chipset uses triple channel DDR3. As to 1600 versus 1333, the benchmark performance difference exists, but it is slight. I use 1600, but I also have set it to (near) 1333 for some tests on ETW and NTW and saw no appreciable difference in performance - which would be what I would expect in most titles. As far as Shogun 2 is concerned, we do not KNOW the specs or what will run it at Ultra, and we are trying to make an educated guess based on what hints and reveals the developer has released so far: something near NTW but more demanding as you scale up yet with more optimizations -- whatever that means, and an interview released a few days ago that discussed core optimizations. I am confident that what we have discussed will give you very satisfactory results at the very least, based on the information we have now.

    That said, wait if you can. Not only will things you want now be cheaper in the future, we will have more and more certainty about what we are looking at exactly for S2. Finally, newer CPUs and chipsets are due to be released at the beginning to middle of next year which will lead to newer (but more expensive) alternatives, and possibly significantly further reduce the cost of the currently available systems we have been discussing.

    Cheers,
    Al
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • beyndtstngbeyndtstng Junior Member Posts: 12Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    Does the onboard sound support the newest eax or go I need to buy a soundcard? I'm not sure if etw or ntw have the same sound options as m2tw.
  • Maeda_ToshiieMaeda_Toshiie Senior Member SingaporePosts: 3,601Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    Onboard sound nowadays are pretty sophisticated, so check the mobo specs. They'd mention the EAX that they support.

    Western D Caviar Blacks are too expensive. So what if you have a 5 year warranty? The DATA on the disk is more valuable than the drive itself. I'd rather get 2 cheaper Samsung F3s and do a Raid 1. Granted that it'll cost more, but way safer than shelling out for a Western D Caviar Black.

    Note: I bought my first Western D which was an 80gig and it failed in 7 months(!). The replacement that I was given gave way shortly after 3 years.
    Total War Forums, the official forums of the Total War series:

    Forum terms and conditions
    Technology Discussion Section
    How not to assemble a PC

    Google-fu, the best skill in solving technical issues.

    Faibo waipa!
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited December 2010
    Er, when did you get these? Thats some bad luck, although that can happen with any manufacturer from time to time.

    I used to run only Seagate HDDs (they were a client) until they had a spate of QC issues a while back. Since that time I have probably used somewhere around 15 to 20 Western Digitals (mostly caviar black or green), with no failures to date [scientifically knocks on wood]. Thats more than a dozen machines running for anywhere from a month to two years. That is not to say you will or will not, but every mfg'er can have failures, or bad batches, and my recent experience has been pretty robust to date. The only Western Digital I ever got rid of was an 80 gig because it was simply too slow to scavenge for an update (old tech).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • beyndtstngbeyndtstng Junior Member Posts: 12Registered Users
    edited December 2010
    So I was about to do this but now I've read to wait on sandy bridge. Thoughts? Also it is safe to buy my video card now or does ATI or nVidia plan on releasing a better generation in the next month or so?
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited December 2010
    Wait for Sandy Bridge for one of two reasons only:

    1) Money is no object, and you don't care how much you pay for being an early adopter, because you are going to buy the newest, briightest thing out there as soon as it comes out...

    2) Money really IS an object, and you are going to wait until that new and shiny Sandy Bridge comes out, because at that moment, you will have the best chance of still being able to get the older CPUs, but they will be at their lowest price before they disappear, getting you the biggest bang for your buck.

    Video Chip Makers are constantly upgrading and surpassing old tech with more capable cards. This will never end, and no matter what you do, it is unlikely you will have the fastest bestest card out there for more than 6 months. Based on recent times, it will be for even less time than that. I would definitely not be waiting on that account unless the follwing in true (Call it AlJabberwock's Tech-To-Release Rule or TTRR): If you do not NEED the new rig now, and it is primarily for S2 that you are buying it, wait as long as you can before release, because every day and every week lowers the price of more and more advanced cards as they are continually improving in relation to the tech of the game (which is already determined/frozen in time) - making what you are able to get AND afford stronger in relation to the game tech.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
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