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Yes or no?

HenanHenan Junior MemberPosts: 11Registered Users
edited January 2011 in Technology
hey guys
i am ganne buy a pc for the next couple of year for gaming
i dont have a million euro's so i dont need to play everything on max settings but it must be able to last for like 3-4 years will this do the trick or not?

HP Pavilion Elite HPE
intelcore i5 processor 2.66 GhZ
6 GB DDr3
1 TB hard drive
NVIDIA GeForce Gt 230 (1,5GB)
EDIT: 460-Watt PFC netadapter

random stuff:
10X usb 2.0, DVI ,HDMI ,VGA, 2X FireWire

Edit: it costs with my discount 629.0 euro
Post edited by Henan on

Comments

  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited January 2011
    Hi Henan!
    Er,
    From a performance only standpoint, I can give you a pretty definite "no" on it being ok for the next 3 or 4 years unless you are willing to upgrade the video card. In terms of price value, it would be better to get a european perspective. Also, that model has like 200 sub-models... So, if its indicated, can you say if its an HPE '210f', or '112y' or whatever it is? Thanks!


    Performance

    While it has enough ram most likely, I would comment that that is a two channel system if it has an i5, This means that either they have an odd number of ram sticks in it or they have two of 2 gigs, and two of 1 gigs. While the second is 'slightly' better, either configuration is inefficient and well, odd. I will be looking into this system and will probably give more info later. Thanks for the question!

    The 2.66 i5 CPU is the 750, so it turbos up to 3.2 (auto speed increase as workload demands it without an overclock), which is just fine for the near future. Good chip.

    The video card is a super budget, DX 10 card which had two versions, one is bad, and the other is worse. Each of them in various ways has about 20% or less of the performance of what WAS the upper tier card in that 200's generation (the 285, TWO generations ago!).
    You can get much better performance out of a three year old 8800 (which was FOUR generations ago).

    You can probably play most current games with limted screen size/resolution, and lowered settings (in some cases pretty low) and there may be some that are just unplayable slide shows. . As time progressees, it will simply be too far behind the curve.

    EDIT: Henan, thank you! That is one of the most odd things I have seen. While I wasn't able to find your version with the 750 i5, I found one with the 760 i5 that was also offering this "free upgrade" of an extra dimm of ram (yes, they are using three dimms -their specification listing). This means they are either turning a dual channel into single channel, or at best, if theyve got it, have a flex mode where only some of the ram is in single channel mode (but even then its less efficient). Wacky, unless they are doing something to their boards to beat the intel channel programming (highly doubtful - they're probably just betting the average consumer won't realize this issue). That was great, thanks again!
    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-011965.htm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • HenanHenan Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited January 2011
    So if upgrade the videocard in a year or 2 then its good enough i mean i dont need everything on max setting i usualy play everything on low atm so i cant downgrade but with 460-Watt PFC netadapter am i able to upgrade or not?

    i found the model
    http://bizsupport1.austin.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c01989079&lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&contentType=SupportFAQ&prodSeriesId=4079858&prodTypeId=12454&printver=true
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited January 2011
    Ah! Good for you! Is that the model then: p6370nl ? Well I like it except its not optimized memory wise, and the video card as we discussed. IDEALLY, and I understand you might not do this now or at the same time:

    RAM
    1) It would make sense to buy an extra 2gig stick of the same ram so the whole system would operate on two channels instead of one (way better). Although dual interleaved (multiple channel ram) systems don't usually perform twice as fast, they ARE a lot faster. 2gigs of ram isn't very expensive, pretty much anywhere.

    VIDEO
    2)With the caveats I have given, the system would be decent for a few years except for the video card and ram in #1 above - know that if you start off with this card it comes with, I will not take bets on your playing S2 very well, and maybe at all, without putting your fist through the screen.

    PSU
    3) I need specifics on the PSU you have named (460 watt PFC netadapter? Are we sure that is the name of only the PSU? Usually netadapter has to do with your internet card! :) ). I have no knowledge of its 12+v amperage nor efficiency rating. Can you link me to it, because the computer model you linked shows a 300 watt PSU with no details. I would not upgrade the Video on a 300 watt PSU (in general) without a more poweful PSU anyway, but if you have a 460, it might be able to take a significant card depending on what its efficiency and volt on the 12+v are (although I would usually go for more - not a risk taker).

    PSUs become less and less efficient as they are used over time. This means that if you want to keep the same system around for a while you need to build in a 'cushion' for old age (like retirement funds heh!). This is why I usually over-power my builds if I am keeping them for a while. Anyway, sorry to be so long winded, but can I get those details, and did you understand that I dunno about S2 with that card? Thanks for your interest by the way, and I loved that info on the dell program. :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • HenanHenan Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited January 2011
    i am ganne buy this pc with the intent to upgrade in what a half year to a year

    so if i want to upgrade the pc i need to upgrade
    RAM:
    a 2 gig stick
    VIDEO:
    just upgrade cuz the card sucks for gaming
    PSU:
    before even upgrading the video card upgrade this to a min of 500

    THANK YOU FOR THE HELP :D

    BTW this is a special model so thats why you probaly couldnt find it
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited January 2011
    Henan,

    Yes, exactly those would be my reccommendations. Video and checking on your PSU first, ram when you can-although it shouldn't be very expensive.

    When you add to existing ram, you just want to match the type (DDR3) and the speed (◦PC3-10600 which is also referred to as DDR3-1333). Timing does NOT need to be matched for dual channel to work (so if you don't know what it is, forget about it :) ). Although I always DO try to match manufacturer when I can, it is not required for dual channel to work either.

    Anyway, it should work nicely for you once you up the video capacity,

    It was my pleasure! :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • IscaranIscaran Tech-Hero. Posts: 4,229Registered Users
    edited January 2011
    Timing does NOT need to be matched for dual channel to work (so if you don't know what it is, forget about it ). Although I always DO try to match manufacturer when I can, it is not required for dual channel to work either.

    THIS can work - or not. I had a MSI KT3 Ultra 2 mainbaord a few years ago and bought DDR 266MHz RAM for it with CL 3-3-3-x because I though the same that latency would not matter as I would operate the RAM @200MHz....wrong.

    First I had ordered only 1 stick - but later added 2 more identical sticks.

    Because of the BIOS the RAM was operated @CL2-3-3-x or 2.5-3-3-x...both caused it to fail to operate flawlessly when using 2 sticks in dual-channel or even 3 sticks. Only one stick worked perfectly. Took me over a year to figure out the occasional crashes (~once a week) and BSODs as I nearly always blamed bad software programming for it until I finally found a single game (age old civil war generals ) which created the BSODs in a faster way (every hour or so).
    In a desperate measure I tried nearly everything swapping PSU, checking Temps, changing RAM sticks around, until I reduced the system to minimum number of parts, only one HDD, one RAM stick etc.

    That worked flawlessly - after that I did some research and thinking and tested to just add 2 more RAM sticks. Again BSODs in Civil War Generals.

    There have been more warning signs shortly before I tried to bring CWG to work I had to do a system reinstallation because of something I don't remember anymore and the windows installation ALWAYS ended up corrupted. Once I took out all RAM except one stick though the installation went flawlessly.
    Of course my first idea was a memory defect...but I ran MEMTEST for a whole WEEK with NO errors showing up after the disaster with the windows installations. It was such a tiny miscompatibility that it only showed up occassionally when the complete system was stressed.

    Since then I always match latencies and voltages of RAM sticks and check what the mainboard manufacters tells about his RAM channels operation conditions first.
    Iscaran

    Hero.

    If you need help with a support request on these boards please read this and follow the instructions.
  • HenanHenan Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited January 2011
    Thank you guys ALOT for your help only i have decided en talked to a friend of mine for like 2 hours to buy this pc
    for 626.30 euro :D

    dont know the motherboard
    Intel Core i7-2600-processor 3,4GHz
    6GB ddr3
    cache 32 MB
    AMD Radeon HD 5750 1GB
    Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited January 2011
    @Hennan
    Cool! Note you will still have the issue with ram. The 5750 is a much better card than the GT230, so you will have some use for some time, including S2 (yay!), and obviously whatever they have for a PSU woud have to run the 5750 anyway.

    Note that the ram is still going to convert what is a dual channel board into what will effectively be a single channel board, unless they have two sticks of 2gig, and two sticks of 1gig (unlikely). Most likely they will have three sticks of two gigs which is an unneccessary step backward for the speed of your ram, and can be solved by adding a fourth stick of 2 gigs in the remaining slot. (Do look first though before you purchase!

    @Iscaran
    That is a good point from practical experience. Generally I _will_ try to match ALL facets of ram (even the timing) just out of superstition, and any new build will always include exact pairs or triples. So I will not argue the point since I am risk averse and HAVE seen a problem. You will note however that while I have seen cases where it was or was not an issue, the intel specs clearly state this is not neccessary for Dual channel let alone single channel ram arrays to work, and rather that the array will then work at the speed of ths slowest timing:
    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-011965.htm
    Where there are issues, it is more likely that sloppy bios is to blame or the manufacturer has deliberately tinkered with the specification to allow items outside of the intel spec to function. ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI are all class A felons in this latter type of behavior, usually having to do with either the population rules or the supported speeds rules as they pertain to specific socket specification.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
  • HenanHenan Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited January 2011
    the ram is a 1X4 and 1X2 only cant i put a 1X2 for a 4 i dont know anything about ram so can i just take the 2gig card and replace it with a 4 gig or are they in the ram that you cant take them out?
  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator USAPosts: 7,729Moderators, Tech Moderators, Knights
    edited January 2011
    If you are saying it is one 4 gig Dimm and one 2 gig Dimm, that is odd indeed and would lead me to believe they are using a flex mode (the first two gigs of the 4 gig stick and all of the 2 gig stick are running dual channel and the 'left-over' 2 gigs on the 4 gig stick is running single channel... ). Thats not TOO bad, but yeah, definitely 4 and 4 is better! You can definitely take ram out, and replace it, although with the caveats we are telling you. You MUST match type (DDR3) and Speed whatever it is, like say 1333, or 1600. You should REALLY try to match timings and also try to match maker, although maker is last on the priority. If you can order it upfront from the seller, that's how I would do it, even if it is slightly more costly that way. Its especially beneficial if they are going to put it in FOR you so its 8gigs from the get go.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Every so often things happen that can’t be rationalized in a conventional way. People wanna know their government has a response. I am that response.”
    ― Kent Mansley (in "Iron Giant")

    For most general problems, for which you have no idea of the culprit, your first port of call should be:
    https://support.sega.co.uk/hc/en-us/categories/200307381-Total-War-Support

    If you are aware of a bug or a specific issue for which you know the cause, post in the support section for the specific title on our forums. ~Al

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
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